Dáil debates
Wednesday, 2 July 2008
Order of Business
11:00 am
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 20a, statements on Haulbowline; No. 21, Intoxicating Liquor Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed); No. 22, Dublin Transport Authority Bill 2008 [Seanad] — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 23, statements on climate change.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. 20a shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 55 minutes, and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 40 minutes, and shall be confined to a Minister or Minister of State and to the main spokespersons of the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order and may share their time, which shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; immediately following the statements, a Minister or Minister of State shall take questions for a period not exceeding 15 minutes; the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) shall take place at 1.30 p.m., or on the conclusion of No. 20a, whichever is the later, until 2.30 p.m.; the proceedings on the resumed Second Stage of No. 21 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 4.45 p.m. today; the following arrangements shall apply in relation to No. 23: the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and Sinn Féin, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case, and the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case, Members may share time, and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed ten minutes; and Private Members' business shall be No. 45, motion re fishing industry (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m., if not previously concluded.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are four proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20a agreed to?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach for agreeing to have a discussion on Haulbowline, which was raised by Deputies Coveney, Stanton, Clune, Ciarán Lynch and others yesterday. I note from reports this morning that the Minister met with residents of the Haulbowline area yesterday evening and was complimented on his openness, although a conclusion was not brought to the matter. In view of that openness, I ask the Taoiseach whether it is intended to release the five reports that were produced on this issue. Given that we are having a discussion with the Minister in the House to answer questions, can I take it that these five reports will be released and made available to Deputies who wish to study them?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not strictly a matter for the Order of Business.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is a matter that will emerge in the course of the statements. I do not know whether it is possible to release them or whether there are legal issues. I do not have a clue.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach encourage their release? It is possible.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 20a agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal regarding the suspension of sitting under Standing Order 23(1) agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 21 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 23 agreed to? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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With regard to the Dublin Transport Authority Bill, Deputy O'Dowd has brought it to my attention that the Minister brought in a number of amendments on Committee Stage which were quite difficult to understand and undertook to give information to the Deputies in advance of Report Stage. I understand that information has not been forthcoming. Deputies are now going into Report Stage without clarification of those amendments.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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It was cleared by me to go to the Deputies last week.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I have received no information whatsoever. The Minister was not able to explain the issue. It was not that I did not understand it. The Minister could not explain it.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should check in his office.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I understand information was also to be provided about the routes for which a public service obligation will apply and that has not been forthcoming either.
While I am on my feet, I will ask the Taoiseach another question. Deputy James Reilly has raised on numerous occasions the issue of the fair deal legislation for persons in long-stay institutions. I know the Bill will not be produced before the House rises but it may be introduced towards the back end of the year. However, a number of incidents have arisen in which people have no money left and they are now in dire financial straits. It is open to the Taoiseach to do something in respect of the——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——in respect of the situation that applies.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows this is about promised legislation.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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With regard to that legislation and in view of the complications that have arisen, does the Government intend to do anything in the interim to assist people who are now suffering not only medically with various illnesses but also from serious financial constraints?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach on the legislation.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I have said, the legislation will not be taken this year. I am not in a position to say what arrangements, if any, are being made. The Minister for Health and Children has carefully considered the question and the matter is being discussed at the moment. When a decision is reached an announcement will be made. There is no decision.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I understand that the legislation will not be introduced, but surely the Taoiseach is in a position to make arrangements to instruct people to release the funds and ring-fence the €110 million. A person who visited me recently spent €350,000, sold his house and had €1,200 left. What should he do now?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot deal with this matter on the Order of Business. Does the Deputy understand the position?
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I do but the Ceann Comhairle should sympathise with people in such circumstances. There should be an increase in the subventions payable and the €110 million should be ring-fenced.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I wish to raise a point related to legislation on the same issue. We have been told several times that the Minister is considering using some of the money to alleviate hardship. Will the Taoiseach tell us when this consideration will finish in order that we can give answers to people?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies should only raise matters related to legislation on the Order of Business.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I wish to raise two matters. A report on a fire in County Tyrone last November was released yesterday following an independent inquiry. We seem to be slower in receiving reports following independent inquiries. There was an independent inquiry into the tragedy in April 2007 involving the four members of the Dunne family in Monageer, County Wexford. I understand the report was due for publication in April this year but that this deadline was then extended by three months. I understand from reports yesterday that its publication is being delayed again. When will it be published and released?
The second issue I wish to raise arises from a judgment of the European Court of Human Rights yesterday involving a number of human rights organisations. It was established that over a seven year period every telephone, fax, e-mail and data communication between the United Kingdom and Ireland, including legally privileged and confidential information, had been intercepted and stored, en masse, by an electronic test facility operated by the British Ministry of Defence. This breaches the human right to privacy.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot deal with this matter on the Order of Business.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Two legislative issues arise from it. There was a call by a human rights organisation involved for legislation on surveillance here and in the United Kingdom to be tightened as a result of the judgment. The finding by the European Court of Human Rights is shocking. Has the Government taken immediate action to seek assurances from the British Government that this practice will not continue? What consideration is it giving to legislation arising from this case?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not believe legislation is promised in that regard.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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What about the Monageer report?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The persons conducting the inquiry asked for a little more time to finalise the report and we granted the extension. The report has not yet been completed but should be available in the coming months.
12:00 pm
Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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My question relates to the Civil Partnership Bill. I understand there has been much discussion in the Taoiseach's party on the legislation in recent days. Media reports suggest the Taoiseach and his party have given a commitment relating to the promotion of the special position of the family set out in Article 41 of the Constitution. What does this mean? What will the Taoiseach do to promote the special position of the family set out in Constitution through this or other legislation? Is he committed to this approach, given the anti-family record of his party in government in terms of tax individualisation and so on?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in this regard?
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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It is due later this year.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy wants to know what goes on in the rooms of the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party, she should join the party.
Lucinda Creighton (Dublin South East, Fine Gael)
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I am asking about legislation and want to know precisely what the Taoiseach intends to do to promote the role of the family in the Civil Partnership Bill. It has been suggested in the media that this is what he will do.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in this regard?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Civil Partnership Bill is due later this year.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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When he was Minister for Finance, the Taoiseach promised that the deposit protection scheme, protecting depositors in banks, would be reformed. The British authorities today announced legislation to provide three times more deposit protection for those investing in Northern Ireland than is provided for persons investing here. When will we see legislation in this regard? Does the Taoiseach agree there is considerable urgency attached to this issue in the light of the British changes?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will check with the incumbent Minister the position on this matter.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach's memory is short.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not a question of my memory being short, but of whether legislation has been promised — it was certainly being considered.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach promised to review this area.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not recall giving a public commitment but the point is, regardless of whether my memory is faulty, we will check this out.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I have a leaked e-mail from Nenagh Hospital.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot raise the issue of Nenagh Hospital on the Order of Business, no matter how serious it is.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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I wish to ask about the promised Teamwork report on the reorganisation of health services in the mid-west. It has not been published but it appears that it is being implemented by stealth by the HSE in the mid-west. Acute services in smaller hospitals are to be closed with services transferred to the Mid-West Regional Hospital. Will the report be published and debated in the House?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the report to be laid before the Dáil?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the report will be made public in the normal way as soon as it has been cleared by the internal HSE review process that involves the corporate team of the board.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It is being implemented already.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am advised by the HSE that the Teamwork report has not yet been concluded and that a further meeting has taken place between consultants and the HSE which anticipates that the final report will be submitted to its board for consideration shortly.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The Government must do something about the issue, as the HSE is running away with itself and operating like a secret society.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I want to ask the Taoiseach about his earlier assertion that the Minister for Finance will come before the House to make a statement on the Exchequer figures. A major media event is promised for later today and Fianna Fáil is trying to control a bad news story as best it can.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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What legislation can we pass in the Dáil to deal with this?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does Deputy Burton have a question on legislation?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach said the Minister for Finance would come before the House. Therefore, my question relates to the business of the House.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Minister for Finance is to come before us and get over his shock and depression at holding the office during the bad times. When will he come before us and what will be the parameters of the statement he is to make? Will we be told about cutbacks, economies or savings being sought by the Government? The Taoiseach said yesterday and this morning that the Minister for Finance was to come before the House with a statement.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What will be the parameters of the statement?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume her seat because this is a continuum.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Share prices in most major banks are falling because the Government cannot get a grip on this issue. Will the Taoiseach explain what he is to do?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume her seat because she is completely out of order. If I allowed every Member to do what she is doing, we would be here all day, every day, doing nothing else. We cannot have this.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We cannot allow the economy to go down the tubes while this shower look on. We cannot allow the economy be talked into a recession by those on the Government benches.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Who is talking it into a recession?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must resume her seat while the Ceann Comhairle is on his feet. I do not want to ask her to leave the House but will if I must.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I thought the Ceann Comhairle would care about the economy, even if those on the Government benches do not.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Broughan.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach misled the House this day last week, perhaps inadvertently, on legislation. As happens occasionally, he was badly advised by the Minister beside him. He said no legislation was necessary regarding the graduated learner driver licence but it has become clear in recent days that such legislation is necessary. Our legal advice suggests——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in this regard?
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister for Transport does not seem to know about this, yet we know, our colleagues know and those involved in the Road Safety Authority know.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Points of clarification may not be raised on the Order of Business.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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Those on the Labour Party benches should stop telling untruths, as I never said that.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach told me that the regulation had been passed. The Minister whispered to him.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Was the Taoiseach misled by the Minister for Transport on that occasion?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in that area, Taoiseach?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not believe I was misled by the Minister for Transport. The Deputy will have to show me the record. I do not know what he is talking about.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach told me that no legislation was necessary, but it clearly is.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy O'Dowd.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Everybody knows it is. What a Government.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I would like to make a point about the Dublin Transport Authority Bill 2008, which is to be considered by the House this evening. When, on Committee Stage, the Minister introduced at least two amendments which he was unable to explain, I was promised——
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I explained them to the Deputy.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I asked him to explain what the amendments meant.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy was unable to understand them.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Minister was unable to explain them.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can raise that matter with the Minister during this evening's debate.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The record will show the Minister promised that——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I cannot go into that now.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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——I would be briefed on these matters before the Report Stage debate on the Bill.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy got a brief.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Minister to allow Deputy O'Dowd to finish.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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That debate will take place tonight.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the Deputy's question?
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Why have we not been briefed on these issues?
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy got a brief.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputies should stop the argy-bargy.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy got a copy of the briefing document.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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On a point of order, I am asking about important legislation that is going through the House at present.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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I will deal with it later.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Minister could not explain the amendments on Committee Stage. He has not explained them yet.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy got a brief.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Second, on legislation that was considered in this House last week——
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy cannot understand the brief, that is not my problem.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I got word at 8.10 p.m. that this was to be debated the following day.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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That was dealt with last week.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The notice I got from the Fianna Fáil Whip said that I had been briefed on the matter by the Department. I was not briefed by the Department.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to raise that in another way.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The arrogance of the Minister is unacceptable.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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It is matched only by the Deputy's own arrogance.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It is a disgrace that he is continuing to act in this manner.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows that I cannot go into that now.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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He should resign his position. He is a disgrace.
Noel Dempsey (Meath West, Fianna Fail)
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It is at least three weeks since the Deputy called for my resignation.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is arrogant and useless. He is a waste of space.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Many people are forced to go abroad to access realistically priced dental care as a result of the rip-off that is happening in this country.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Do not mind the rip-off. Ask a question.
James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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When can we expect the dentists Bill, which I hope will bring some sort of reality to this country's dental costs, to be published?
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I answered that yesterday. There is no date for the Bill.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I would like to pick up on the point made by Deputy Gilmore about the surveillance that was carried out by the British Ministry of Defence. It seems that there has been a significant breach of the international rule of law. I suggest that the proposed covert surveillance Bill be brought to the House. Can the Taoiseach indicate when it might be brought into the House? It seems to be an obvious vehicle for a discussion on this issue.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It sounds better than the overt surveillance Bill.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There is no date for the Bill in question.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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As the Government will not take that route, I would like to mention another delectable legislative provision that it might consider in this regard. I refer to the legislation that will give effect to the EU framework decision that allows the Irish courts to enforce fines which are imposed in other EU member states. That sounds like a nice little Bill. There is nothing to stop the Government from introducing it effectively. It may be seen as attractive at the present time because it is self-financing.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not matter whether it is nice.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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To what Bill does the Deputy specifically refer?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the exact title of the Bill in question?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I refer to No. 68. There is some difficulty there.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is like everything else, a Cheann Comhairle — no reply, no answer, no solution. Nothing is happening. The lights are on, but there is nobody at home.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I am afraid to stand up at the same time as my colleague, Deputy Durkan. Is the Taoiseach aware of the lack of regulation of laser eye clinics? Is legislation pending in that regard? People who have been treated, at great expense to this country, have gone blind. People have died at cosmetic clinics.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation does the Deputy refer?
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The legislation that is planned is the health information Bill.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can ask about that.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Will that Bill contain anything that will help to regularise and regulate these clinics?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The contents of the Bill are not relevant on the Order of Business.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The clinics in question are referred to in the profession as "seagull clinics".
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Taoiseach to respond to the Deputy on the health information Bill.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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People come to this country to perform surgery and leave without offering any after-care to patients.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate on health now.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Our health service has to pick up the bill.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The health information Bill will be introduced next year.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should answer my question.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Hogan.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach answered the question.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It will be introduced next year.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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More people will go blind and die in the interim.
John Cregan (Limerick West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy would have heard the first answer if he was not talking so much.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I have asked on a number of occasions about the legislation that needs to be introduced if we are to revamp some of our housing schemes on foot of the 50% reduction in affordable and social housing output.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what Bill does the Deputy refer?
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The legislation in question was promised in the programme for Government.
Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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When will the housing (miscellaneous provisions) Bill be published? It was promised for this session.
Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It will not be introduced in this session. We hope to have it published during the summer.