Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 85: To ask the Minister for Education and Science about the ongoing negotiations between his Department and autism groups on the issue of recognition of ABA schools; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19990/08]

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Question 226: To ask the Minister for Education and Science the position regarding future developments on ABA schools for children with autism. [20205/08]

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 85 and 226 together.

The Deputy will be aware of the Government's commitment to ensuring that all children with special educational needs, including those with autism, can have access to an education appropriate to their needs preferably in school settings through the primary and post-primary school network. This facilitates access to individualised education programmes, fully qualified professional teachers, special needs assistants and the appropriate school curriculum.

The establishment of a network of autism-specific special classes in schools across the country to cater for children with autism has been a key educational priority in recent years. In excess of 315 classes have been approved around the country at primary and post-primary level, including many in special schools. Children in these classes benefit from having fully qualified teachers who have access to training in a range of autism-specific interventions, including applied behavioural analysis, ABA, the treatment and education of autistic and related communication handicapped children, TEACCH, and the picture exchange communication system, PECS. These students have the option, where appropriate, of full-partial integration and interaction with other pupils. Funding is also provided for assistance technology and specialist equipment as required and special school transport arrangements may also be put in place.

My Department has put in place a training programme for teachers in autism-specific interventions including TEACCH, PECS and ABA through the special education support service. A recent initiative has been the expansion of this service to enable it to recruit a behavioural specialist support team, led by a person with a PhD in applied behavioural analysis.

My Department's ABA pilot scheme was established in the absence of this network of special classes in our schools. Since July 2007, there have been 18 meetings with the autism groups in relation to the commitment in the current programme for Government to long-term funding for the centres that are in the ABA pilot scheme subject to agreement with my Department on standards that will enable them to be supported as primary schools for children with autism. The discussions have been wide-ranging and have included curricular issues, funding and staffing.

Discussions between the autism groups and my Department are progressing well. My Department is very anxious to finalise these discussions so that permanent arrangements can be put in place as soon as possible. It has been agreed not to disclose the details of the discussions while they are ongoing. It should be noted that discussions are taking place with Irish Autism Action on 12 of the 13 centres and separate direct discussions are taking place between the Department and the remaining pilot centre. The Deputies will appreciate that I am not in a position to comment further on these discussions.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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I want to be associated with the earlier comments and congratulate the Minister and the Minister of State on their new posts.

Unfortunately, I echo some more of the earlier comments as well. I am none the wiser after the Minister's answer to the question asked by Deputy Timmins. Is the funding available for the 12 extra schools or has it been agreed? The Minister is new in the job and I do not want to give him a hard time, but I point out that the reality is not as he has outlined. There is a school in Castleknock and I know of another one in Swords where there is a teacher, a classroom and two special needs assistants, who are not particularly well trained in autism, but it is better than nothing. However, they cannot get access to speech and language therapy, a behavioural psychologist or occupational therapy so that they cannot function. That is the reality on the ground. What is the situation vis-À-vis funding for the 12 extra ABA schools? Are they being funded and, in the event, when? When is it hoped the negotiations will conclude because they have been going on for a very long time?

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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We prefer to call them discussions rather than negotiations. My officials will meet again next week to bring this matter to a conclusion. The Department of Education and Science has sanctioned the establishment of 13 centres for children with autism, which would operate through ABA.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister clarify whether those are in addition to the existing 12 schools that currently have funding?

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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No, all other applications will have to be looked at in the normal way. There are other applications for recognition and they will be examined in light of various applications in particular areas. I emphasise we have funding for the 13 centres and we are in negotiations on the 14th. That is the agreement to date as regards ABA. However, I do not want to go into further discussion until the two players involved have completed their assignments.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I, too, want to avail of the opportunity to wish the Minister well in his new portfolio and congratulate him on his frontline responsibilities.

Does his response represent the fact that the new Minister for Education and Science is approaching the whole issue of autism spectrum disorder with a new copy book? I must take hope from what he says, that the discussions, as he terms them, will indeed address the serious outstanding issues which were left on the departure of the previous Minister. I expect the Minister accepts that autism spectrum disorder, by its nature, covers varying degrees of severity and, therefore, different responses are required. If the Minister is not in a position to provide the detail, what we need is an affirmation of his intent to fully recognise the importance of ABA for those children for whom it is clearly appropriate, and that is the critical point. We want to see appropriate measures and opportunities in place which are accessible to all children on the basis of their respective needs.

Will the Minister indicate a willingness on the part of the Department under his stewardship to approach the whole provision of funding and resources for ABA on the basis of need as required across the board?

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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With the change of Minister I hope we shall now see a change of attitude from the Department of Education and Science in terms of dealing with this issue and in terms of bringing to a conclusion these discussions because the pilot schools have been in existence for the past nine years. As my colleague, Deputy Reilly, and others said, the Department only engaged in this issue following the debate in the House in February this year, when the hollowness of the previous Minister's position was exposed for all to see.

As regards the 12 pilot schools on which the Minister wants the discussions to be concluded, is he saying that once the talks are finished there will be absolute agreement on these institutions, but that a way for other schools to emerge in other parts of the country will be indicated, if that is the choice of parents, where the need arises?

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Minister has a window to chart a new course; he should grab it with three hands.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputies for their interventions and Deputy Ó Caoláin for his good wishes.

I agree wholeheartedly with the Deputies on the child-centred approach. Meeting the needs of the individual child is what is important. It was stated the needs of the child can change from time to time and Deputy Ó Caoláin seemed to accept there are different approaches to meeting them. I come to this issue with an interest in ensuring there is sufficient capacity in the system, that the teachers are professional, that the enhanced resources put in place to date will continue to be made available and that the National Council for Special Education will advise the Department on progress that can be made on this issue.