Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 74: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his views on the recent research paper by the National Economic and Social Council, Ireland's Child Income Supports: The Case for a New Form of Targeting, which was recently published, stating that child benefit is hugely inefficient; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12122/08]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Financial supports are transferred directly to parents through child income supports, the provision of which is based on the premise that it is appropriate that the State shares with parents the costs of rearing and maintaining children. The broad objectives are to bring about an improvement in the relative overall position of families with children compared with single persons or childless couples and to alleviate child poverty. The principal child-centred income support is child benefit, payable in respect of children up to the age of 16 years and to age 19 in the case of children who are in full-time education or suffering from a long-term disability. Payment is not affected by parental means or employment status.

The Department's other main child income supports are the increase for a qualified child, IQC, which is paid in addition to social welfare payments to age 18 and extended, in most schemes, to age 22 where the child is in full-time education and family income supplement, which is paid to low-income employees working a specified minimum number of hours per fortnight and who have at least one qualified child. In addition, the early child care supplement, paid by my Department on behalf of the Office of the Minister for Children in respect of all children under six years of age who receive child benefit, makes a significant contribution to recipient families.

For a number of years, Government policy has been to invest additional resources in child benefit. This policy focus was driven, in part, by the recognition that the loss of IQC payments by social welfare recipients on taking up employment could act as a disincentive to availing of work opportunities. In terms of tackling work disincentives, the shift towards child benefit has been significant. For example, in 1994 child benefit represented 29% of the total child income support payment for a four-child family and is now 64%. In other words, a family will now only lose 36% of its child income support when a welfare recipient loses entitlement to a primary social welfare payment.

Under the terms of an earlier social partnership agreement, the National Economic and Social Council was asked to examine the feasibility of merging the family income supplement with IQC, with a view to creating a single second-tier child income support. This commitment to examine such a change was subsequently embodied in the current social partnership agreement Towards 2016. Dr. John Sweeney was commissioned by NESC to examine the issues and develop proposals for a second-tier child income support scheme. His research paper on this issue was received towards the end of 2007.

In considering the future direction of child income support policy, it is important to keep in mind the multiple objectives behind the provision of such support and to maintain the correct balance between child benefit and more selective measures.

Dr. Sweeney's research paper, which is an important contribution to the debate, is being examined at present.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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A great deal of history is being made today and many comments are being made on the success or otherwise of the Governments led by the Taoiseach. However, not many plaudits will be given in the area of child poverty. A number of the Government parties failed originally to meet their commitment to eliminate child poverty by 2007. The Minister addressed my question at the end of his reply and stated the report is currently being studied. When is a decision on this issue likely to be made? What is his view on the notion of introducing a second tier child support? Is he seriously considering this? Has he examined the commentary by many of the social partners, including well respected groups such as the Society of St. Vincent de Paul? Unfortunately, the society is making a presentation to the Joint Committee on Social and Family Affairs as we are taking Question Time, which is another example of how badly reform is needed in the operation of the House. However, groups such as the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and Barnardos believe a second tier payment is necessary. Will there be a decision on this in the near future?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I fundamentally disagree with the Deputy's opening remarks. No Governments in the history of the State have done more for children than those led by the Taoiseach over the past ten years. The figures prove that. Many of the bodies representing children also subscribe to that view. For example, child benefit payments in 2000 were €43.81 for each of the first two children and €58.41 for the third and subsequent children while the equivalent payments today are €166 and €203, which represent increases of 280% and 248% respectively. That is one area of targeted income we put forward in a multiplicity of an effort to make sure children remain in good stead and the Government is seen to support parents and children, particularly those who are less well off in society.

While Dr. Sweeney published a report on a second tier child payment, there is fundamental disagreement within the NESC on this approach. There are many different views. For instance, the family income supplement is targeted at children and people working in low paid jobs to encourage people back to work while, at the same time, giving them a direct payment to support their children. It is a better and more direct way of assisting families and directly assisting children. While I have an open mind on the issue, the reality is representative groups fundamentally disagree on this approach. It is my intention to continue to use resources in a very targeted way to assist children in need.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The failing is that the Minister is examining what he is giving people rather than what they can do with it. A total of 20% of children in Ireland are at risk of poverty and one in nine is in consistent poverty. The Minister has not given a specific reply on whether this payment will be introduced. However, proposals have also been made to tax child benefit recipients to pay for the second tier support if it is introduced. Can the Minister rule that out?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy stated 20% of children are at risk of poverty. The measurement in that instance contributes nothing to the debate and I do not accept that 20% of children are at risk of or are in poverty and nobody else does either. When the specific measures and targets in place are examined, there are very different outcomes. Under the measurement used previously when we dealt with child poverty, we would have achieved the target we set out but the target was changed and we used a different measurement. Even under this, the percentage of children at risk is well down in single figures. The Government and myself will continue to drive down the figures and to end the situation of children of any hue, age or social background being in consistent poverty over the next number of years.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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How does the Minister intend to do that?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The figures over the past few years indicate we are well on target to achieve it.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Question 75: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his views on the reform needed to the rent supplement scheme following a recent television programme (details supplied) in sub-standard accommodation occupied by recipients of rent supplement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12462/08]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Responsibility for setting and enforcing housing standards rests with local authorities. Under legislation introduced in October 2006 the HSE, which administers the supplementary welfare allowance scheme on the Department's behalf, may refuse rent supplement where it has been notified by a housing authority that the accommodation concerned does not comply with standards.

Where a notification is received from a housing authority in respect of an existing tenant the community welfare officer would discuss the situation with the tenant and take whatever action it decides is necessary in the best interests of the tenant. These arrangements are aimed at improving the standards of accommodation which rent supplement tenants occupy and supporting the local authority in meeting their responsibilities with regard to housing standards.

The most recent information available from the HSE is that any notifications of substandard accommodation received from local authorities have resulted in rent supplement being terminated or the refusal of rent supplement where it was not already in payment. Where the HSE becomes aware of accommodation or blocks of accommodation which appear to it to be substandard, it notifies the local authority and it may advise prospective tenants at such premises that rent supplement will not be paid in respect of those tenancies.

In addition, details of rent supplemented tenancies that are of more than 18 months' duration are notified to local authorities every quarter. This information is primarily for the purpose of identifying rent supplement tenants for transfer to the rental accommodation scheme, RAS. As part of this process local authorities inspect the accommodation concerned before accepting them on to the RAS and this information sharing assists in enforcing housing standards.

Given the extent of information sharing and the arrangements in place to refuse rent supplement where accommodation does not comply with standards, I have no plans to make further changes in the rent supplement scheme at this time.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The information from the Minister that he has no plans to do anything about this is disappointing. Did the Minister see the recent "Prime Time" programme which depicted the appalling condition of much of the private rented sector housing stock? If the Minister did not see it on the night, did he make any arrangements to view it afterwards? It was hair-raising. It showed large numbers of private rented sector units being let out at extremely high rents, particularly in Dublin city, which were rat infested and had serious problems with dampness and overcrowding. They also had poor quality cooking and bathroom conditions. Their conditions were appalling and one would not put a dog into them.

Most people renting this type of accommodation, which is at the lowest end of the market, are in receipt of rent supplement. The Minister cannot wash his hands of responsibility in this area. He is responsible for paying out €420 million of taxpayers' money annually to landlords, many of whom operate these types of housing units and are unscrupulous people who obviously do not care about standards. What is the Minister doing to ensure people in receipt of rent supplement are able to access decent quality accommodation? What action is he taking against unscrupulous landlords who are creaming it at the expense of the most vulnerable people in our society?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy well knows, responsibility for setting and enforcing housing standards rests with local authorities. I hope her commitment in this House is the same as that of her colleagues in local authorities throughout the country where the responsibility lies for housing standards. Housing standards are not the responsibility of my Department. What my Department is responsible for are people who find themselves in difficult circumstances and supporting them directly with substantial financial resources to allow them to source accommodation for themselves.

As a matter of interest, with regard to the figures, up to October 2007 the HSE received only 18 notifications of substandard accommodation and has acted on all of them. Of these notifications, 12 were in respect of existing tenancies and all rent supplement claims were terminated. Six were in respect of tenancies which did not involve rent supplement. I am happy to inform the House that we acted fully on all notifications and payments were terminated.

I accept the points made by the Deputy on some of the accommodation made available. I urge the local authorities with direct responsibility, resources and staff to deal with this issue to do so forthwith. I hope all councillors on local authorities will raise these issues at full council meetings with the manager or director responsible for housing to ensure the quality and standard of accommodation available to people, particularly those in receipt of rent supplement, is good.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Will the Minister accept there is a communication problem between his Department and local authorities in this regard?

The Minister stated in his initial reply that where poor standards are brought to the attention of a community welfare officer, the matter may be discussed with the tenant and whatever action necessary will be taken. The Minister is aware there is a dearth of accommodation available for people on rent supplement and that very often they are forced to put up with what they have or be homeless. It is not good enough for the Minister to preside over a situation whereby large amounts of public money are being spent on accommodation while he opts out of the issue in respect of the standard of that accommodation.

On how many occasions have community welfare officers brought to the attention of local authorities accommodation which was of a poor standard? Will the Minister consider issuing guidelines to community welfare officers in respect of the standards of accommodation and what action they can take when appalling standards are brought to their attention?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am sure the Deputy heard the point I made earlier that all rent supplement tenancies of more than 18 months duration are notified quarterly to the local authorities and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I am speaking about poor quality accommodation.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I have also stated that the 18 notifications to which the Deputy referred were received and acted upon and that in all cases, rent supplement was terminated. I agree we must ensure none of our clients has to reside in sub-standard accommodation. The Deputy is confused. My role, through the Department, is to support and assist individuals throughout the country in finding suitable accommodation. This is done on a daily and weekly basis. The relationship between my Department and the client is specifically to support him or her in finding accommodation.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister signs the cheques irrespective of standards.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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We support all clients who fulfil the required criteria in sourcing accommodation in this country.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Did the Minister see the programme?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Shortall is trying to disavow the Labour Party of its responsibility at local government level. They are quick to come into this House to blame me or any other member of the Government——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Did the Minister see the programme concerned?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should allow me to answer the question.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister should conclude his reply as we have run out of time.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy well knows, housing standards and the enforcement of housing standards is specifically, in law, a matter for the local authorities. I do not have the resources at central Government level.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister continues to pay irrespective of standards.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Local authorities should do their job and the Deputy's colleagues should ensure they do it.