Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 79: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the way he will tackle fraudulent child benefit claims; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12110/08]

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Question 83: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the control measures in place to ensure that claims for child benefit and early child care supplement in respect of non-resident children are bona fides and remain so; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12204/08]

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Question 123: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the steps his Department has taken to ensure that non-Irish EU nationals living here and claiming child benefit for children living abroad are valid claimants; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [12111/08]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 79, 83 and 123 together.

The prevention of fraud and abuse of the social welfare system is an integral part of the day-to-day work of the Department. I am committed to ensuring that social welfare payments are available to those who are entitled to them. I am also determined to ensure that abuse of the system is prevented and is dealt with effectively when detected.

All child benefit claims require a minimum level of information and documentation to be provided and verified before being awarded. The amount of information and documentation required varies depending on the customer circumstances, for instance, the child's place of birth. Given the significant changes in the child benefit customer base and in the value of child benefit payments, the control policy for the child benefit scheme and, consequently, the early child care supplement, ECS, scheme, has been reviewed to ensure that controls against fraud and abuse of the schemes continue to be effective and relevant.

As a result of this review, enhanced and updated control measures have been devised, which enable the automated issue of forms, that is, certificates, to subsets of selected groups of customers for completion and return to the Department to confirm that they continue to satisfy the conditions for receipt of child benefit and ECS. In the case of non-Irish national recipients who are resident in Ireland with their children, certification that the children continue to reside here is required. Proof of such residence can take the form of details of the school or college the child attends or, if the child is not of school-going age, details of the doctor or crèche he or she attends. Such information is used to verify that children are resident in Ireland.

In the case of EU nationals who are working in Ireland but have qualified children living in another EU state, certification by their employer of continuing employment is requested. If the required certification is not provided within the timescale requested — 21 days — child benefit or early child care supplement payments are suspended pending further inquiry. If certification is subsequently provided, payments which were suspended will be made in full. A percentage of all replies is checked to ensure the accuracy of the information provided, with cases referred to social welfare inspectors for follow-up action as necessary. These new certification reviews commenced in November 2007 and approximately 23,000 review forms have issued since then. This number will increase in the coming months. It is expected that more than 100,000 customers will be reviewed this year.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I tabled this question on foot of the comments the Minister made about the issue of fraud during the debate on the Social Welfare Bill. The figures given on that occasion were stark. It was mentioned that a survey found that 1.7% of the 500 Irish nationals who were surveyed were involved in social welfare fraud, compared to a figure of 13.9% in the case of non-Irish nationals. It is clear that a significant number of people engage in fraud of this nature. The Minister mentioned that when it is balanced out, there is an overall level of fraud of 2.3%, which probably does not seem so bad. Was each of the payments being made to the 13.9% of non-Irish nationals and the 1.7% of Irish nationals immediately suspended? Were the payments which had been made under fraudulent circumstances reimbursed to the Department of Social and Family Affairs? Was legal action taken to ensure that the moneys which should not have been paid in the first instance were given back to the Department? The Minister briefly outlined the steps which are being taken to prevent social welfare fraud and ensure it does not happen so frequently. Are strengthening mechanisms proposed to ensure that fraud does not take place? The Minister mentioned that letters are being sought from schools etc. Is that happening on a regular basis? Is such an approach adopted only when a cohort of 1,000 cases has been examined? Is each child benefit application the subject of such control procedures?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Child benefit control procedures have been effective to date. Payments are not made on foot of claims until all the necessary documentation has been obtained and verified. Sometimes this causes problems for the individuals concerned. We have to ensure we protect the taxpayer. The proper information has to be provided. The Department of Social and Family Affairs has a good working relationship with its counterparts in other countries. If claims are made in respect of children who are living abroad, we need proof, in the form of birth certificates, for example, of the existence of such children, their ages, their locations and their living arrangements etc. I have already highlighted how we deal with non-Irish nationals who are living here with their children. We look for confirmation of school attendance from their schools if they are of school-going age. If they are not yet old enough to go to school, we are happy to receive letters from the local crèche or doctor with whom they are associated. It is an effective scheme.

It is clear that we have to remain vigilant — there is no question about that. A number of units within the Department of Social and Family Affairs are making efforts to instigate control mechanisms to ensure that fraud is kept to an absolute minimum. There will always be a certain percentage of the public who try to defraud any system. We have to ensure that we do not allow such people to get past our system. If they do, we have to seek them out and catch them quickly.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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It is all very well to say we have to remain vigilant. I am not sure that the Department of Social and Family Affairs is being vigilant. The recent report produced by the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General showed that there is a fraud rate of 14%, in relation to child benefit, in respect of non-resident children. Some €137 million is spent each year on child benefit and early child care supplement payments in respect of non-resident children. The fraud rate of 14% in such cases is significant. What action has the Department of Social and Family Affairs taken since the Comptroller and Auditor General's report was made available? How many checks of the kind mentioned by the Minister have been carried out since that report was published? As regards sanctions where payments are suspended, how many have been suspended?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Some 2,769 claims have been suspended to date because of late or non-reply of residency funds — as no reply has been received within the required timeframe. There can be legitimate reasons for this. The circumstances of individuals can change so that they are no longer within the system. As I have indicated, with the additional staff we have put into the control unit at Letterkenny, this year we expect to do approximately 100,000 individual reviews. That will certainly ensure there are no——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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How many reviews have been done?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I believe I gave the figure of 23,000 earlier. The overall scale and the numbers of families and children involved are significant. The number of children of Irish nationality is 967,767 and there are more then half a million claims. From the EU 27 the claims come to 48,000 and non-EU applications comprise 28,000. That is over half a million claims involving 1,113,209 children. Taking the scale of what Ireland and the Department is doing in trying to ensure that we treat all children fairly and equally and support families in need in this regard, that is a fair return. I accept, however, that we must maintain a high level of activity in this area, and indeed increase it. That is why I have indicated in my replies to Deputies Shortall and Enright that there will be specific focus and emphasis on this area this year, with more than 100,000 individual cases being reviewed.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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What steps will the Minister take to ensure the system is strengthened? I have asked him this already and he more or less outlined what is being done at present. However, my reason for asking is that my original question in March looked for the figures in 2007. The statistics I am using, according to the reply I received — for 13.9% of non-Irish nationals and 1.7% of Irish nationals — relate only to last year. That means that a significant number of people under the system currently in place were still able to make fraudulent claims through the Department. Therefore this is still a live issue and its scale remains significant. The response the Minister has given appears to indicate that matters are all right when clearly they are not, if that number of people are able to make fraudulent claims.

I am seeking a more specific response from the Minister in terms of what his Department is doing to ensure that this level of fraudulence cannot continue. Obviously the measures taken to date have been insufficient to tackle the problem.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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One must keep in context the scale of the inaccurate information found. The figure is very low, given the size of the Department's operation and the numbers of families and children involved. I may have given Deputy Shortall a wrong figure a moment ago. Since November last some 23,000 certificates were issued. That is the figure I——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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That is not what I asked.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I know it was not and I am sorry. I have a note in front of me, and I just wanted to correct that on the record and confirm that 23,000 certificates have been issued. A detailed check was recently carried out, again, on about 10% of all the different claimants involved. In approximately 3% of cases the information proved either to be incorrect or could not be validated. These claims were, of course, suspended and referred to the social welfare inspectorate for investigation. What I have indicated to Deputy Enright are all the recent cases, particularly as regards the certification process. We must continue to enhance those new ways of doing business, ensuring we can detect where fraudulent claims are being made. As I have said, the significance of the information the Department is now obtaining from abroad is quite substantial. The message going out to the various communities, and indeed, our own, is that it is becoming virtually impossible to get away with sustained fraud within the social welfare system, particularly as it relates to child benefit.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I would like the Minister to respond to Question No. 83, which refers to the payment of child benefit for non-resident children. There are approximately 3,000 non-resident children in receipt of the benefit. What steps has the Minister taken in respect of the fraud uncovered to date and how many payments have been suspended since the Comptroller and Auditor General reported on the matter? How many checks is the Department carrying out annually?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I gave that figure to the Deputy.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister did not.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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There are 2,900.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The figure of 2,769 is the overall figure for child benefit and does not pertain superficially to non-resident children.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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If I do not have the specific figure on non-nationals in front of me, I will obtain it for the Deputy.

Under EU regulations, overpayments of family benefits in one state, such as Ireland, are recoverable in another state. The child benefit section pursues recovery in such cases.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I went to the trouble of tabling a question and the Minister should be respectful enough to reply today. I asked about child benefit fraud in respect of non-resident children and it seems the Minister has no figures at all, which is very disappointing.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The figure I have given to the Deputy is the only specific figure I have in front of me today.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It was asked whether the Minister has any figures on the number of prosecutions and suspended payments. Child benefit fraud is an offence.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I gave a figure on that matter and on certification. If there are other issues on which I need to provide information, I will be happy to do so. I can only give the Deputy the information I have in front of me.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Can the Minister repeat the number of prosecutions?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I will have to forward the number to the Deputy; I do not have it here.