Dáil debates
Wednesday, 12 March 2008
Other Questions
Electricity Transmission.
1:00 pm
Kieran O'Donnell (Limerick East, Fine Gael)
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Question 84: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if the independent consultant engaged by him to report on issues surrounding the North-South interconnector is still due to report by the end of April 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10696/08]
Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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Question 120: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the position regarding the study on the comparative merits of overhead electricity transmission lines versus underground cables; when it will be published; if such a study will be carried out in every instance in the future; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10563/08]
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 269: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if it is possible to extend the timeframe under which a consultant appointed by his Department will undertake a study on the comparative merits of overhead electricity transmission lines and underground cables for the Meath-Cavan-Monaghan 400 kV project, in the context of the fact that a number of companies have decided not to tender based on the tight timescale envisaged. [10736/08]
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 270: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the number of companies that have tendered for the study on the comparative merits of overhead electricity transmission lines and underground cables for the Meath-Cavan-Monaghan 400 kV project; when a decision will be made on selecting a successful applicant; and the names of companies that have tendered. [10737/08]
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 271: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if the tender has been advertised on a Europe-wide basis for the study on the comparative merits of overhead electricity transmission lines and underground cables for the Meath-Cavan-Monaghan 400 kV project; and if there has been interest from companies outside Ireland. [10738/08]
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 272: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will ensure that there will be no conflict of interest between the selected successful tender and the past relationship with EirGrid which may compromise the credibility of the study of the comparative merits of overhead electricity transmission lines and underground cables for the Meath-Cavan-Monaghan 400 kV project. [10739/08]
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 84, 120, and 269 to 272, inclusive, together.
The invitation to tender for the independent study on the comparative merits of overhead and underground electricity transmission lines was placed on the Government's eTenders website on 11 February last. The deadline for receipt of tenders was 29 February. The terms of reference for the study were available both on the eTenders website, which is accessible throughout Europe, and on the Department's website.
The study will examine, inter alia, transmission technologies currently available for electricity transmission at 110 kV and above. It will also review current practices worldwide for constructing transmission lines, and the relative technical performance, capital and total life cycle costs, including the impact on unit electricity prices, and environmental impacts of underground and overground lines across a wide range of criteria. A draft final report is to be submitted by the consultants to the Department 40 days after contract signature and it is anticipated that the report will be finalised within the following 14 days.
It was not considered necessary to extend the timeframe for completion of the study. Four tenders for the study were received by the closing date of Friday 29 February, of which three were from companies outside Ireland. The details of the tenders are commercially sensitive at this time. I will publish the name of the successful tenderer once a contract has been agreed. I have asked my officials to finalise the contract with a view to ensuring that work gets under way as soon as possible and the draft final report is received by the end of April. I intend to publish the study once it is finalised, which implies a publication date during May.
The aim of this independent study is to provide authoritative advice on the issue of overhead versus underground transmission lines, thereby informing debate and decisions on all current and future transmission line projects. It is not envisaged that studies would be carried out for future individual projects.
The tender documentation specifically required each company to declare any conflicts of interest in its tender submission and the Department reserves the right to take whatever action it considers appropriate in case of failure to disclose a conflict of interest or misdeclaration of conflict of interest. I am confident that no conflict of interest will arise that would compromise the credibility of the study.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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How much time do we have for questions? Do we get extra time?
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister for his reply and for undertaking to do this study, which is a brave move. It is a pity the previous Minister did not do this before the tender went out. However, it is an important decision by the Minister and a sign of democracy in action.
I understand the Minister cannot give us the name of the company that will carry out the study. I am happy the Minister will make sure it is independent and that there is no conflict of interest. Is the deadline for completion of the project 40 working days or 40 days? There is a lot of concern on our side that it is a very short time. If the company that receives the contract asks for more time halfway through its research, will it receive more time? In the 14 days the Minister has allowed for the report to be signed off after completion, will the report come to the Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources for discussion? Will the committee have a say on that?
Under the terms of reference the company will be asked to investigate current practice in various countries. I have written to the consultants on this issue also. Can the Minister ensure the company will find out why the authorities in certain countries have decided to adopt regulations with regard to the distance between homes and power lines? Whose advice did they take? That is a point on which we are a bit confused. If the report comes back with recommendations that it is economically viable to put the lines underground, what will happen then? Is the Minister prepared to issue instructions to EirGrid to change the way in which it has been going about its business? The feedback we are getting from EirGrid unofficially is that it is not willing to budge. Those at EirGrid do not think there will be a change. The Minister's answer to this question will tell us whether the process is useful and will work.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I will have to check, but my understanding is that the deadline is 40 days, not 40 working days.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Forty days would not allow us to stay within the April-May timeframe I am setting out. One of the options we wanted to preserve was for the consultants to come to the committee and present the analysis as set out. That would be appropriate and would allow the committee to ask relevant questions with regard to the findings of the study once it is completed. As to what happens after that, I do not want to pre-empt the outcome of the study. Everyone has an interest in developing the infrastructure in the speediest manner possible because, to go back to Deputy Coveney's previous question, there is a major issue in terms of the development of our electricity system, particularly in the north east, where the electricity infrastructure is limiting further economic development. No one is looking for unnecessary delays in the process. It will be up to EirGrid, as well as ourselves, to consider the study and its recommendations and incorporate them into its plans. I do not want to pre-empt what the consultants might say.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has an open mind.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Unlike Deputy English, I would like an assurance that the applicant company selected will be totally independent. It is important that the Minister gives such an assurance. Can the Minister advise us that the selection criteria will include a restriction on those who were previously engaged by EirGrid, Northern Ireland Electricity or any other energy interest to examine other proposals? Can he assure us that they would be debarred from selection if their independence was compromised by a previous contractual arrangement? Can he advise when he will announce his selection? How long will the Minister take to go through the applications he has received? What will be the starting point for the 40 day period? Will it begin on the day of the announcement of his decision to grant responsibility to a certain company or group?
Can the Minister tell us the names of the applicants? I appreciate the sensitivity regarding the details of the tenders presented but is it not within the Minister's gift to advise the House of the names of the applicant companies, groups and individuals? This would let us know who is in the running for this responsibility.
Can the Minister indicate to the House that it is his intention to include in the briefing the terms of reference for this independent assessment of overhead, pylon-supported power lines as this approach is different to the underground approach to power lines? Can the Minister assure us that the assessment will not be confined to the cost of installation but will examine costs over the life expectancy, which, I understand, is some 40 years in each case? We should properly evaluate which approach gives the best return over its life expectancy.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I cannot give details of the companies involved or the likely winner as they are commercially sensitive. In terms of the Deputy's first question on reputation and independence, the companies that have applied are internationally recognised in this area of energy advice. The names of the companies indicate that we are dealing with leading international firms in the area of consultancy and advice. I do not have the full details of their client bases but the nature of such companies is that they will have worked on a range of projects. I am certain, given the reputation of these companies and having seen the work they have done in other areas, that we are talking about reputable, leading international companies. I am not concerned but there is a provision to deal with any conflicts of interest that were, inadvertently, not declared. I do not believe it will be necessary to use it.
The period of 40 days will apply from the moment contracts are signed and I intend for this to happen in the coming weeks. We will finalise details and work will progress.
I stated already that the terms of reference, which I believe are quite open, mention the examination of total life cycle costs and the comparative environmental impact of the different options. The terms of reference have been set in a way that should not restrict consultants in the work they do.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I wish to be associated with Deputy English's comments thanking the Minister for agreeing to carry out this study. This was an example of democracy at work and those who attended the committee saw it in action.
Is the Minister satisfied that 40 days is sufficient time for a proper, in-depth study to be done? I also wish to be associated with Deputy English's remarks on the need for this to be totally independent. Any company that has worked on this type of interconnector structure, north or south of the Border, would attract questions. Will the company evaluate the cost of delays caused by legal actions if this is to go overground? There is no doubt that legal actions would cause delays in such circumstances.
Will the consultants appointed be asked to consult the relevant group that has studied this issue in the Meath, Cavan and Monaghan areas? This group is not an example of "rent a crowd" but is serious and genuine and wants the best for its community and country. The Minister said this is only the start of the roll-out so if we can get this right other areas will become easier. The three Deputies sitting before the Minister have met this group and found it to be concise, active and only interested in dealing with reality. I urge the Minister to ensure the consultants meet this group and use its expertise.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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One of the elements I insisted on, in going through this process, was a forum for people with an interest in the issue to make detailed submissions that the consultants must take into account. We ensured this would happen by advertising widely in local and national newspapers to give people the opportunity to make a submission. People are very aware of some of the technical issues and I trust that, given the detailed information they already had, they were able to make their points in a specific and constructive manner.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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This is to do with the meetings.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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This is the process we decided on to allow people make submissions. The time frame for the work to be done is tight but one of the advantages of using international consultants with experience in this area is they are not entirely new to the issue; they will draw on a basis of international experience as this matter has been examined in many countries. It is appropriate that we use best practice and the latest scientific research from other countries and apply it to the Irish context. An international consultant can do this. We are confident that the work can be done in the given time frame and that it will provide useful information to the Government, EirGrid and the committee for consideration.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I will follow up on one or two of the Minister's answers. The representative group, which consists mostly of the North East Pylon Pressure group, submitted a 300 page document by the deadline. Will the Minister ensure that the consultancy firm meets this pressure group in the same way that, I assume, it will meet EirGrid? If the consultancy firm is from outside Ireland it will need an understanding of local concerns in addition to the localised demands of EirGrid. If the consultancy firm is to do as comprehensive a job as we hope, it will need to meet the two major players in the discussion. This makes sense and I ask the Minister to ensure it happens.
My second question is on the target route of the study. Is this a general assessment of overground versus underground or an assessment of getting a DC light, a 400 kV piece of infrastructure, from one point on the island of Ireland to another point? Is it that one might perhaps be able to use a combination of both? Is it specific to this project or is it a general report on the merits of underground versus overground and the average costs that apply? If it is specific to this route we need to ensure the consultant has the time and opportunity to examine the different routes concerned.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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As our all-Ireland grid study, to which I referred earlier, shows there is a significant requirement for us to urgently build a series of grid connections — we would have to do this in any event to upgrade our grid, even if we were not changing our energy policy direction — it is right for us to treat this on a national basis rather than on a project-specific basis because the lessons we learn in one area will obviously apply elsewhere.
Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is the issue, rural versus urban.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Having said that, there are very different topographic or regional demographic issues in regard to a 440 kV power line which would go 80 km through drumlin country versus a smaller grid connection that might be applied in the west or in a mountainous region. There are obviously different considerations. We are looking for the consultant to bring back information on the implications for different examples. In that regard one of the projects we will be looking at specifically is the type of project in which we are engaged in the North-South interconnector. It is not a project-specific study, it is a wider study to help inform that project and many other projects which will have to proceed. In those circumstances, I am reluctant to direct the consultant to take on a meeting, regardless of whether a pressure group is capable and has much experience. At least in the requirement that they review the information provided, as set out in our consultation process, that 300 page report provides a detailed analysis on their specific project.
Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Did EirGrid make a written submission containing hundreds of pages or will it have the opportunity to meet the consultants? This is about fair play and equality across the board. If one has to submit a report but there is no meeting, the same should apply to the other side.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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EirGrid has made its point in numerous public fora and in publications.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I am not directing the consultant in terms of any meetings. It is up to them with their experience in the area to take the information provided and to bring in international experience because we need to see what exactly has applied elsewhere and if there are other examples in the world where this issue has been resolved. That will tell us more in a sense. The reality on the ground in other countries may tell us much more than a series of meetings we might try to set up here.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I seek clarification from the Minister where he indicated that the brief or terms of reference for the independent consultants is not specific to the North-South interconnector and the 400 kV power line proposal from Meath to Cavan. Will it address at all the specifics of both of these power line proposals or is it, as the Minister suggested, in his further reply to Deputy Coveney, a study in the bigger picture sense of overground versus underground and international experience and best practice? Can the Minister be clear as to what extent the consultants will address either of the two proposed power lines from Tyrone, through Monaghan and Cavan and into Meath, and also including County Armagh?
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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We are asking the consultants to bring in international expertise to look at the broad national picture here but, obviously, within that to look at specific examples of topography or network configurations which will apply in the development of our network. In doing that one has to look at some of the big connection projects, the North-South interconnector being one of the largest. Obviously one would not ignore specific projects but it is not designed as a project-specific study. It is looking at the broad national picture. By answering the broader questions, it will help us to look at the specific project mentioned by the Deputy.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Will there be anything in the contract to prevent the consultants from actually meeting the groups? As happened in the case of the Teamwork report in Monaghan, the Teamwork group could not meet the people concerned. If in respect of the 300 page document that the consultants have got, they want to consult with the people who wrote it, will they be allowed to meet them?
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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As I understand it, there will be nothing in the contract which would preclude such a meeting.