Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Question 17: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the length of time required to put in place the infrastructure for the water services programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8275/08]

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Water services investments have been undertaken for a number of years on the basis of three year rolling capital programmes of schemes. The schemes included respond to environmental and social-economic developmental needs and priorities identified by local authorities having regard to overall criteria set at national level and overall national resources. The length of time it takes from first proposal of any water or sewerage scheme to completion of construction largely depends on the nature and complexity of the scheme and the statutory processes involved.

When a water or sewerage scheme is first proposed by a local authority in its assessment of needs it may take some time to be approved for inclusion in my Department's water services investment programme, depending critically on the priority afforded to it by the elected members of the local authority and the funding available for the programme. In the case of a scheme included in the water services investment programme, my Department's involvement at individual stages can vary from two to four occasions depending on the value of the scheme. The Department approves the local authority's design brief and preliminary report for all schemes and in some instances it also approves the contract documents. In the case of public private partnership contracts, it additionally approves the local authority's tender recommendation.

The Department's objective is to deal with preliminary reports within six months of receipt, contract documents within four months and tender recommendations within two months. Design briefs are generally cleared within a few weeks. Local authorities have responsibility for all other aspects of a scheme, including appointment of consultants, statutory planning and other processes including public consultation and approval of elected members, site investigations, acquisition of lands and wayleaves, preparation of tender documents, tendering process, appointment of contractors and carrying out of works. The time taken to advance a scheme will depend largely on how quickly these processes are completed. The Department keeps the approval procedures for water services schemes under ongoing review and is committed to devolving as much responsibility as possible to local authorities, consistent with the requirements of the Department of Finance's capital appraisal guidelines and my Department's obligations relating to management and oversight of Exchequer expenditure.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The experience on the ground is far different from what the Minister stated in his reply. It takes approximately four and a half years for a scheme of €2 million to €3 million in value to be expedited through the system. That is the reality. The Minister mentioned deadlines of six months for preliminary reports and four months for contractors' documents to be submitted. I doubt that any local authority has met those targets. They should be evaluated for their performance. Officials of the local authorities would be indicted in their performance related pay on that issue alone if it was an accountable feature of their work.

No local authority should be involved in polluting streams and rivers. The Minister regularly speaks about proper planning and development. All developments should incorporate the most basic facilities of water and sewerage services that are part of the council's plans, but these are deliberately slowed down by the Department. The Minister is shaking his head but this is happening. In an effort to balance the books, the schemes are slowed down. The Minister puts everything into a plan or programme but they do not always emerge at the other end with the capital funding required. Will the Minister agree that the reality is far different from the six month and four month targets he mentioned? In my experience the total amount of time required for a scheme valued at €2 million to €3 million is four and a half years and that is without difficulties with legal title for sites for sourcing water supply or sewerage treatment plants.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I reject out of hand the allegation that my Department is deliberately slowing down schemes.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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It definitely is. Any director of services in a local authority will confirm it.

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister said that last year.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Department is only involved in a maximum of four stage approvals for a scheme and it is committed to discharging its obligations on those stages within a given timetable. The Deputy referred to schemes costing €3 million to €4 million. With schemes that cost less than €5 million, which account for almost 60% of schemes, my Department's approval is only required for briefs for appointment of consultants, which are usually cleared in a few weeks, and preliminary reports, where the approval target is six months.

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister bundles them to make sure they will not happen.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Those are the facts. Look at the record. In 2007, there were 77 major schemes. We are increasing the number and in January 2008 the figure was up to 124 schemes. There is a plan to have 175 major schemes in progress by the end of this year, compared with just 59 in January 2006. That represents considerable progress. One of my responsibilities as Minister is officially to open sewage treatment plants in various places, so I have seen the tremendous progress. Deputy Bannon was present recently when I opened one such plant and he looked pleased on the day. I see he still has a smile on his face. That is the type of progress we wish to maintain. For that reason my Department is committed to ramping up the programme.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should have another look at the Department's file. The Department's officials get around this by bundling the schemes.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Bundling is used to speed up the schemes.

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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No, it is there to slow them down.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow Deputy Hogan to ask his question.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I will offer an example. In County Kilkenny, the schemes for Freshford, Johnstown and Goresbridge are bundled together. They cost €5.1 million and it has taken four and half years to get them through the system. That is not the council's fault but the Department's. A number of plans and capital programmes were reviewed after the general election and have been delayed by two or three years. They were supposed to be started in 2008 or 2009 but now will not start until 2011. How will the Minister explain that? His brief states differently but that is what is happening on the ground. I ask the Minister to review how the systems operate and the bundling mechanisms, which are in place to slow schemes down rather than improve matters.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I have been in contact with local authorities and often the bundling takes place at the request of the local authority, not the Department.

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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They want to slow them down too.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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They want to slow them down.

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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Some of the managers do.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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So is the Deputy saying the local authority and my Department are to blame?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The is the final priority question. I ask the Minister not to be drawn into replying to Members who have not submitted a priority question.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I am trying to engage with the Opposition.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I would prefer if the Minister did not.

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
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He is from Limerick.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Since the beginning of the National Development Plan 2000-2006, more than 400 major water and sewerage schemes have been completed under the Department's water services investment programme at a cost of €3.5 billion. The facts speak for themselves. I have visited many of these schemes, including a recent visit to a scheme in Galway where there was a cryptosporidium outbreak last year. As a result of our investment in the new Terryland plant, where a further €3.6 million has been invested, it will be possible to process a further 20,000 cu. m. of water. Not only will the water be of good quality, it will probably be the best quality drinking water in the country. That is progress.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should ask the Department how long it took the process to be completed in that case.