Dáil debates

Wednesday, 27 February 2008

11:00 am

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 8, motion re the proposed approval by Dáil Éireann of the Limerick City Boundary Alteration Order 2008, back from committee; No. 15, Passports Bill 2007 — Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage; No. 16, Civil Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages; and No. 2, Student Support Bill 2008 — Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 8 shall be decided without debate. Private Members' business shall be No. 30, motion re broadband services (resumed), to conclude at 8.30 p.m. if not previously concluded.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8 agreed? Agreed.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am glad to see that the Tánaiste gave the Taoiseach a ringing endorsement this morning. I hope that after my length of service in the House I am qualified to ask a question——

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——given the Tánaiste's verdict on other people. The Whips have spoken about the value of debate in the House. Tomorrow it is planned to have statements on the difficulties between the HSE and the pharmacies. The Tánaiste is aware of the concern of elderly and vulnerable people about the availability of prescription medicines. The all-party committee on health and children met for three days on this issue. Two motions were put before the committee and both were voted down by the Government members of the committee. Having statements on the issue again tomorrow is a worthless exercise. The Tánaiste might invite the Whips to discuss putting down a motion on the issue so Members could speak for and against it. The statements planned for tomorrow are effectively useless, and the Tánaiste is aware of that.

Second, when will the Cabinet make a decision in respect of a declaration of support or otherwise for Kosovo, which declared its independence last week? I have seen reports that the Government is about to make a decision in this regard.

Third, the Tánaiste will recall the tragic bus accident in Kentstown, County Meath, three years ago in which five young girls lost their lives. Both Meath County Council and Bus Éireann have admitted liability. The case now rests with the garage where the bus underwent its NCT. This case commenced yesterday but the Courts Service of Ireland has a problem in that there is no courtroom to hear the case, so it has been postponed until January 2009. The parents involved are understandably devastated. In respect of the legal services Bill or the position of the Courts Service, will the Tánaiste undertake to find out if something can be done whereby a courtroom can be made available to hear this case? It is the first time the parents have spoken out about the matter and they are devastated. Deputy McEntee received a dozen telephone calls about it this morning.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste to reply on the Courts Service Bill.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The legal services ombudsman Bill is scheduled for this session. I will ask that the Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, be contacted to see if he can find out from the Courts Service the reason for that rather long adjournment of the proceedings given the tragic nature of the event.

The recognition of Kosovo is a matter for decision by the Government imminently——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not in order, Tánaiste.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On the first matter, the statements tomorrow will be beneficial to the House. As the Deputy has said, the Joint Committee on Health and Children has dealt with this matter extensively. As a result of its work and discussions, it has succeeded in bringing some clarity to the issues, unlike the advocacy positions of the various parties concerned. The establishment of a three-person committee under Mr. Dorgan to examine the prescription fee issue and determine how an independent process can take place, where all the parties can go and have the matter resolved on an arbitration basis, is the sensible way forward, given all of the discussion that has taken place. Regarding the HSE and the contract situation on 1 March, the Minister will be able to give an update tomorrow as to what the position is as we face into that date.

It is important to point out that we are trying to arrive at a situation which will be more beneficial to the smaller community pharmacies, on the basis of the rearrangement of the fee structure for those who have large dispensing business practices, helping medical card people and so forth. Those with much larger pharmacies will be in a position to deal with the discount issue between the wholesalers and retailers, which is currently in addition to the mark-up and the prescription fee. It is a question of value for money for the taxpayer at the end of the day. That has to be part of the equation. We would not like to see any unnecessary disruption of the provision of pharmacy services and I do not see why that should be the case. It is an independent process that is now being arranged.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I wish to raise two matters with the Tánaiste. First, over the past two years, my colleague, Deputy Joan Burton has been drawing to the Minister's attention a major loophole in our tax laws relating to stamp duty, under which large developers benefited to the tune of approximately €250 million in 2006. Last year, the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance, in the Finance Act, moved to close off the loophole and introduced section 110 of the 2007 Finance Act. However, the Minister has never commenced section 110. Therefore, we have a situation where the law is on the Statute Book to close the loophole, but the loophole is still alive and well. When does the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance intend to introduce the statutory instrument to commence section 110 of the 2007 Finance Act to close off that loophole?

Second, I understand that the chairperson of the Revenue Commissioners, Mr. Frank Daly, is due to retire and I take this opportunity to thank him for his service and the fine job he has done. When does the Government intend to make the appointment of a new chairperson of the Revenue Commissioners?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not relevant.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is, actually. It is a Government——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No it is not.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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May I respectfully point out that this is one of the few positions where the Government makes the appointment without reference to TLAC? It is done by way of Government decision and announcement and it is relevant on the Order of Business..

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not relevant on the Order of Business.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Can the Tánaiste assure the House that the Taoiseach will not have any involvement in the making of that decision, given the difficulties that he has——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not relevant.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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——himself with the Revenue Commissioners at the moment.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not relevant. On the question of the secondary legislation, Tánaiste.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding that matter, I made a provision, subject to a commencement order, as has been said. The question of changing the law in a certain area, which has been referred to by the Deputy as a loophole, relates to a practice that has been engaged in by builders in terms of how to secure the transfer of land and provide for land to be built upon——

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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To avoid paying stamp duty, while first-time buyers and those trading up are being fleeced.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is to provide for land to be built upon.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste on the implementation of this legislation.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not sure but I think I indicated, in the course of conversations on the Finance Bill on Committee Stage, that I commissioned an independent consultant's report on whether it would be right to introduce the commencement order, given the state of the building industry and where it was in the cycle at this stage. The advice I obtained was not to proceed, in view of the present state of the building industry. That report was made available to the Deputy.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This law is already on the Statute Book. It is a law of the land and the only thing we are waiting for is the Minister to implement it.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not the law of the land.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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He has not done so and in the meantime, we have a situation where developers are avoiding paying stamp duty while people buying a family home have to pay it.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot go into that now. I call Deputy Crawford.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of information, it is not the law of the land until the commencement order issues. It is an enabling section. I obtained independent advice not to commence the section. The report recommended——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Crawford.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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In light of the ongoing job losses in the food industry, when will the Government introduce legislation to deal with the labelling of food? There is a difficulty here between the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Minister for Health and Children.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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To which legislation is the Deputy referring?

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Legislation to ensure proper labelling——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in this area?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not aware it is promised.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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It has been promised for about ten years but has never materialised.

In the context of the issue of the EirGrid line in counties Meath, Monaghan and Cavan, when will the electricity (transfer of transmission assets) Bill be introduced in the House to allow us to discuss the issue? This relates to the transfer of ESB properties to EirGrid.

Finally, spouses of former health workers do not get any pensions in their own right——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Stop, stop, stop.

Photo of Seymour CrawfordSeymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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When will the Bill regarding eligibility for health and personal social services be introduced?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are too many prologues there, Deputy.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not possible to indicate when the last item referred to by the Deputy will be introduced. The electricity (transfer of transmission assets) Bill on the EirGrid question is due this session. On the question of the labelling, our staff will have to revert to the Deputy to try to ascertain to which Bill he is referring.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Among the Tánaiste's other attributes, he has some role in the licensing areas, with regard to late-night drinking and so on.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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His Department has a role, apparently. Does he have any intention of doing anything to reform that area or to deal with the proliferation of off-licences, for which more and more applications are being submitted every week?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will be discussing the weather next. The Deputy must be specific.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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This is an important issue.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move on.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It is a beautiful day today.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We are seeing the impact of this——

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Let's talk about climate change.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Or regime change.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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—— late night crime and all kinds of——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation is the Deputy referring?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Bill on free speech, perhaps.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister for Transport launched a consultation paper on sustainable transport. Will it be possible to allow time in Dáil Éireann to discuss it, given that yesterday a large chunk of this city was in total gridlock for two hours? There seem to be no arrangements, whatsoever, to do something about that. We also have grave concerns about safety issues in the Dublin Port tunnel, which need the Minister's attention. I ask the Tánaiste to deal with those two points.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, no. We are moving on. I call Deputy Naughten.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Tánaiste has an answer for me.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On the licensing issue, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has asked for a report by 31 March, from Mr. Holmes, reviewing the on-licence, off-licence issue. I cannot say any more than that, to remain in line with the Chair's ruling. That is as helpful as I can be, except to say that the Dublin Port tunnel is a great success.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Over the weekend, two members of the Polish community, one of whom subsequently died, were stabbed with a screwdriver. In that context, when will No. 29, the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill be discussed? Can we also discuss the fact that the Minister of State with responsibility for integration has shelved the integration budget? Among the items funded by that budget was the Show Racism the Red Card campaign. Does the Tánaiste agree that we need a specific budget to deal with the issue of racism?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste cannot deal with that. I ask him to just deal with the legislation.

12:00 pm

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the legislation to which the Deputy refers will be dealt with in the middle of this year, at the earliest.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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In the course of the 29th Dáil, considerable and, at times, robust debate took place in the House on the matter of reform of home defence law. A Private Member's Bill from Fine Gael attempted to reform the law to strengthen the position of home owners and occupiers in respect of trespassers and persons committing crimes on the premises. The former Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr. McDowell, promised numerous times that he would introduce reforming legislation. Now that the Progressive Democrats is no longer in government, does the commitment stand? Is there an initiative on the part of the Government to reform the law in respect of home defence?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not on our legislative list. The Progressive Democrats is in government, but not in the Department in question.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Not very physical.

Photo of James BannonJames Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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In light of the increase of anti-social behaviour, when can the House expect the social housing miscellaneous provisions Bill, which is needed urgently?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It will probably be in the middle of this year.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Yesterday, the Joint Committee on Health and Children met the Parents for Justice group and a decision was made to seek a meeting with the Attorney General in respect of the publication of the findings of the Dunne inquiry. Is the Government considering publishing the findings?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must put down a question. She is not in order.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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There has been a series of distressing revelations in the media. It is a matter for Government to decide whether it will publish the findings.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not in order.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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The Tánaiste is representing the Government.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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He is, but it is not in order.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Having these details, including those concerning the sale of babies' organs for as little as £1.50, come out in a drip-feed way in the media is distressing.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are other ways the Deputy can find to raise the matter, but I cannot allow it now because we must move on.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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It is a matter for the Government——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes and it is important, but the Deputy must find another way to address it.

Photo of Jan O'SullivanJan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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——and I hope the Government will seriously consider it. The Government should publish the report instead of allowing the matter to drag on in the media.

Photo of Tommy BroughanTommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We are at the 11th hour in respect of the difficulties presenting between the HSE and the Irish Pharmaceutical Union. In previous responses, the Minister for Health and Children indicated that she would consult the Attorney General to find——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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My question relates to legislation. She stated that she would consult with the Attorney General to find what measures could be introduced to overcome the interpretations placed on the Competition Act 2002.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a tenuous link.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Tánaiste advise the House on whether the Attorney General has given his advice——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This will not do because it is not on promised legislation.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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——and whether promised legislation is part of the address of the ongoing difficulties that affect not only the IPU, but the Irish Dental Association and others?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No legislation is promised in that regard.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will legislation be introduced and has the Attorney General reported back to the Minister on his deliberations on this matter? These questions are in order and I would appreciate if——

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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They are not in order if legislation is not promised. Is legislation promised?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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While I am not aware of promised legislation, the issue is probably being examined. Tomorrow's statements in the House will enable us to get an update in respect of all of these matters.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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In the past three years, Zambia and Tanzania received €150 million through Irish Aid and it is projected that they will be given a combined €80 million in 2008. During the debate on the Finance Bill, the Tánaiste stated we must be more prudent than previously, but is he satisfied that we have adequate measures in place to ensure that the aid we give to these countries gets to where it should go?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, that is not a question on the Order of Business, as the Deputy knows well.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Both countries have had serious medical difficulties in recent months. When can we expect the Ireland funds endowment Bill, No. 54 on the list, before the House?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We hope to see it this year.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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What of the other measure?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Probably not this year.

Photo of Tom SheahanTom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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Has the Tánaiste received a Supplementary Estimate from the Office of An Taoiseach to cover the moneys required in respect of Killarney House, as announced by Deputy Healy-Rae at the weekend?

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That horse will not run.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Tom SheahanTom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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We do not know whether they are for another dehumidifier or something else about the house.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It is a non-starter.

(Interruptions).