Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 97: To ask the Minister for Education and Science her views on the appropriateness, or otherwise of poetry (details supplied) remaining on the leaving certificate syllabus in view of the controversy surrounding the case; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [6867/08]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Advice on prescribed material for the junior and leaving cert exams is submitted to the Department of Education and Science by the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment. Prescribed texts are notified to schools a number of years in advance and must be notified in time to ensure that educational publishers are in a position to provide an adequate supply of texts.

Poems belonging to the person referred to by the Deputy are on the prescribed list for the 2008 and 2009 leaving certificate examinations. As students may already have done considerable work on them, it would be unfair to change the list at this stage. This poet's work has been included in the prescribed texts as it is nationally and internationally recognised. The NCCA has looked at the poetry and considers it suitable and appropriate for its intended audience. It will, however, be advising on a new list of prescribed texts for future years.

The primary criterion for inclusion of texts as part of the prescribed literature is literary merit. Texts must also be accessible, interesting and challenging for students, and be suitable for assessment in accordance with the learning objectives of the curriculum.

I am aware of the controversy surrounding the poet referred to in the question and I am conscious that I should not make any statements in this House that could be deemed to be prejudicial in the event of any proceedings arising in this matter. I accept the social, personal and health education course in particular aims to equip students with an awareness of their rights and responsibilities, and the values, knowledge and skills for ethical decision making. I am also conscious of the need for positive role models for our young people.

The issue is complex and must be considered carefully and in a measured way. I look forward to receiving advice from the NCCA shortly on the texts which should be prescribed for leaving certificate Irish in future years.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In response to the circumstances which arose in this case, the Minister last week said she was shocked and appalled. She speaks on everyone's behalf in that regard. Is the Minister aware the film will be put out on RTE in March and come into the public domain? It is fair to say it could cause a fair degree of controversy in classrooms up and down the country.

In her reply, the Minister stated she has asked the NCCA to furnish her with a report, which she is absolutely entitled to do. Has she considered speaking directly to teachers, parents and students about this? What advice would she give to teachers who must teach the subject matter when this issue comes into the public domain in March, given there is a fair degree of controversy surrounding this case?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It would be the wrong interpretation to say I have asked the NCCA for a report, as it does that every time new prescribed texts must be provided. The course is due to change anyway, to be given to schools for September of next year, for inclusion in the leaving certificate course for the next batch of fifth years and sixth years. It is part of the body's regular work.

As the Deputy said, I am quite shocked and appalled at what I have read in newspapers. I have not yet seen the film. The inclusion of any literature on a paper as part of a course must be looked at on its literary merit, as has been stated. As a former teacher who taught these poems, I can understand the case could prove difficult for teachers. The students are 17 or 18 years old, who equally have been trained to evaluate and discuss such issues.

I hope and believe the NCCA will take all these issues on board, including the merit of the literature, the teaching of it and the circumstances that would arise in a classroom. When it decides on courses and literature to be included in a course, there is a committee made up of teachers which advises on each of the subject areas. All those issues would be taken into account.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

My understanding is the Minister ultimately has power over the curriculum. She takes advice from the NCCA but what is on the curriculum is ultimately a departmental decision. Does the Minister believe it appropriate that this poet's work remains on the curriculum, given the circumstances alluded to in the national press?

I put to her a comment made to me by a teacher recently. She stated that if similar circumstances involving a teacher, a principal or school manager came to public attention, that person would not be left in a school setting. Why should we have one yardstick for teaching professionals and another for poets?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This concerns the age old question of literature. There might be questions about the character of many people whose literature has been on courses for the past 100 years. This is different, however, because it is a current case involving a person living in this country. Students must answer one question about the poet, which could cause difficulty. The merit of the poetry is not at issue because it is recognised nationally and internationally.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister has ultimate power in this matter and must take advice from the NCCA. Is her position that this poet's work will remain on the curriculum and that there could well be a question about it over the next two years? Does the Minister have any intention of changing that?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is not open to me to change something that is on the course. This is February and leaving certificate students are finalising or revising their course so the work remains part of that course until next June. It is also part of the fifth year course. That syllabus was established a couple of years ago. When I say that the NCCA advises me on it, I do not know of any situation, nor would any be desirable, in which a Minister for Education and Science would determine what should be on the course. If that was the case, we could all interfere with the syllabus.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister put de Valera's book on the course.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister circulated de Valera's book.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That was recommended by the history——

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister did not have to accept that.

Michael Ahern (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It should have been put on the course years ago.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Not only that but it fitted in perfectly with the leaving certificate history course which is made up of documents. It would not be appropriate for any Minister to say he or she would like this poem or that play on the course. I am satisfied that the NCCA will take into account not just the literary merit of the poetry, but also its suitability for the age group being taught and for the teachers in the classroom, bearing in mind that the literature and the life of the poet must be understood.