Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Question 96: To ask the Minister for Education and Science if, in view of recent newspaper reports regarding draft procedures to deal with primary school teachers who are not meeting or adhering to required or satisfactory standards being prepared within her Department, she will formally consult the Irish Primary Principals Network, IPPN, before finalising her Department's recommendations on this issue; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [6034/08]

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The reputation of the education system, both nationally and internationally, attests to the dedication, skill and competence of Irish teachers generally. It is recognised that while the majority of teachers fulfil their teaching function and professional duties adequately and well, there are, as in all professions, a small number of underperforming personnel in schools. As part of the modernisation agenda for teachers under the social partnership agreement Towards 2016, it was agreed to address the issue of difficulties in relation to teacher performance.

Teachers are employed by the board of management of each individual school or in the case of the vocational education sector by the individual vocational education committee. Section 24(3) of the Education Act 1998 provides that a board of management of a school may suspend or dismiss teachers in accordance with procedures agreed from time to time between the Minister, the patron of the school, recognised school management organisations and any recognised trade union representing teachers. In that context and as one element of addressing issues of underperformance, discussions under the auspices of the Teachers Conciliation Council have commenced to review and revise existing procedures for the suspension and dismissal of teachers.

The Teachers Conciliation Council is the recognised forum for dealing with matters relating to pay and conditions of service for teachers. The parties to the forum include representatives of the managerial authorities of schools, the teacher unions and the Departments of Education and Science and Finance. The forum is, therefore, representative of employers and employees, as is usual in industrial relations matters. The procedures, when agreed, will provide fair and effective mechanisms in respect of the small number of cases where serious underperformance arises.

The representative body for school principals on industrial relations matters is the Irish National Teachers Organisation, INTO. While it remains open to principals to make their views known to the INTO, the Deputy will appreciate that it would not be appropriate for me, as Minister, to open up an alternative process of negotiation to that already agreed and in place under the Teachers Conciliation Council.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for her reply. The preamble was perhaps unnecessary, particularly in view of the time constraints. I put it to the Minister that the tone of her reply is in complete contrast to that of the eulogistic address she delivered at the IPPN conference in Killarney, which I attended, when she stated that principals are the leaders of the schools. The Minister is now saying the leaders of the schools have no role to play in the definition, design and structures that would deal with the problem. It may be a problem for the minority but it is very big for parents whose child happens to be in a class or for the principal of a small school where for personal, family or external reasons, a teacher is not performing.

Is the Minister stating the INTO rules the roost on these matters and when it comes to the formal involvement in negotiations or discussions, the IPPN has no place whatever?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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As Deputy Quinn correctly stated, I spoke to the principals at the conference and rightly stated the principals are the leaders of the schools. The IPPN is a professional association of school leaders and a body I have much time for. It does a significant amount of networking around the country in supporting principals and working with them but it is not the recognised body for industrial relations.

Principals are recognised and are working through the INTO in this process. On a formal basis, which is the question the Deputy asked, there is no role for the IPPN. There is of course a role for the views of principals, which are being taken on board as they come from principals and professionals. The INTO acts on their behalf as the recognised trade union in all these talks.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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If the INTO represents the teachers and the boards of management represent the patrons, who represents the children and parents? All I am asking is whether the Minister will either formally or informally consult with the IPPN before signing off the new and welcome procedures. I use the word "informally" to get around the structure inherited by the Minister which she did not design. She may be a prisoner of it.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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A very important factor is that the views of principals are taken on board.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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How?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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It does not matter which body represents those views, as long as the view is put across. The body principals have chosen to represent them is the INTO, the officially recognised trade union. At a meeting with the IPPN, representatives gave their views on an informal basis. There is absolutely no possibility of setting up a parallel structure when the INTO is the formal group representing principals and teachers.

On the broader issue of who represents the children, the best way of doing this is to get agreement on this issue very quickly. We all know it concerns a few people but they can have a serious impact in class. We can reach agreement on this over the next couple of months.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Minister did not answer the question. How can she say, when nobody is representing the children, that the best way to get representation for children is to get agreement by the players around the table, none of whom ostensibly represents the children?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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There are a number of ways of supporting teachers who have difficulty. There is the teacher welfare service——

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Will the Minister just answer the question?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering the question. The best way of supporting the children is to ensure they have professional teachers in the classroom. By supporting those teachers professionally, through in-service and the welfare service available to them, as well as by having this process in place, we have the best way of ensuring the underperforming teacher is removed from the classroom and the teaching of children.

There have been ways over the past number of years that still exist where teachers can go out on permanent leave, effectively, through strands 1, 2 and 3. Approximately 700 teachers took that last year.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Does the Minister not accept the first role of the INTO is to defend those teachers' interests rather than that of the children?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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The INTO is a recognised trade union.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I know.

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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It is the body representing principals and teachers. I understand and hope that agreement can be reached on this very quickly. It is very important in the interests of the children——

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Will the Minister speak to the IPPN?

Mary Hanafin (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
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I have already heard the views of the IPPN but it cannot be part of the formal structure because it is not the recognised union.