Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Question 106: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs when he will place the Money Advice and Budgeting Service on a statutory basis. [5256/08]

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Question 146: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs when he expects to publish the new legislation to place the Money Advice and Budgeting Service on a statutory basis; the number of people who approached the service in 2007; the number of cases which were dealt with and resolved; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5263/08]

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Question 162: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the action he is taking to tackle the problem of debt among social welfare recipients; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5257/08]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 106, 146 and 162 together.

The Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS, is the main Government funded service which provides assistance to people who are over-indebted and need help and advice in coping with debt problems. There are 53 independent companies nationwide with over 240 money advice staff operating the service.

In 2007, MABS provided services to almost 12,500 new clients throughout the country. In addition, some 2,600 people sought information on budgeting and money management. The MABS national telephone helpline, which was launched in October 2007, has dealt to date with approximately 1,700 calls. The number of active cases receiving ongoing support in managing their finances and resolving their debt difficulties at the end of the year was 19,200. Almost €18 million has been provided in 2008 to assist MABS in dealing with its workload.

The issues that give rise to problems of over-indebtedness for people are highly complex. Research shows that lack of information about money management can be a contributory factor in many cases. The cost and availability of credit for people on low incomes and the barriers they face in accessing mainstream and cheap forms of credit add to the difficulties people encounter in managing their finances. MABS is making a unique and expert contribution to meeting the needs of people with debt difficulties in today's society. This includes promoting greater awareness of household budgeting and shaping the strategies to ensure greater financial inclusion, especially those of service providers, such as banks and credit unions.

In line with the programme for Government, I am developing proposals to establish a new structure for the future of the MABS. I intend to bring the proposals to the Government in the coming months. My proposals will build on the best features of the MABS model of service to the public. They involve the continuation of local voluntary involvement in the MABS service, with strong national leadership to ensure a high quality, co-ordinated budgeting and advice service that represents value for money for the taxpayers' investment and is geared to meet the challenges posed by the changing face of debt in Ireland.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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We all accept that MABS provides an excellent service. All of us, on a regular basis, refer constituents to it for support and assistance when they get into debt. However, it is not tolerable that the MABS service operates on the basis of 53 separate, independent companies around the country. For a long time, the Government has been promising to introduce legislation. There was a Bill in 2002 but it was scrapped. I am very concerned about what has happened since then because prior to the last general election, the MABS Bill was on the Government's programme of legislation for the autumn session, but it has vanished from the programme. What has happened to that Bill? Why has it not been given the urgency and attention it requires? I ask the Minister to give an assurance that it will be restored to the Government's legislative programme and to set out a very clear timescale for dealing with it. When will the Bill be published and when does the Minister expect it to become law?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am happy to agree with the Deputy regarding MABS and what it achieves. We are both of one mind on that and any of the people who interact with MABS will hold the same view. I intend to put MABS on a statutory footing. I am currently conducting an efficiency review of a large number of organisations. There is a lot of overlapping and complementarity between a large number of organisations. In some respects, the remit of organisations that were established some time ago has been surpassed by a changing Ireland. MABS is very much a part of the future. I have no doubts about the service MABS delivers and its importance. It will remain a significant and important service for the foreseeable future.

Due to the efficiency review and the examination of the structures in place, I decided to hold fire on the direction I will take with MABS. However, I assure the Deputy that it will be put on a statutory basis. I am trying to work out, through examining various structures, the best structure for MABS. I do not necessarily want another organisation created. As the Deputy knows, the number of organisations has mushroomed. I want to be sure that we are getting the best value for taxpayers' money and that the best efficiencies and delivery mechanisms are in place. That is why I have stood back from specifically racing forward with setting up another statutory body, to add to all the other statutory bodies in existence. I want to examine the remit of them all to determine what exactly we should have for now and the future.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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What is the timescale for that?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am doing it at the moment. The work is ongoing. I would like to be in a position to complete it this year and have a way forward for MABS. That is the plan. It is significant work. One is dealing with an enormous number of organisations. There is clearly a massive overlap in some areas between the Department and many of the agencies.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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That has been going on for years.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has asked what I will do in my time. I will tackle it and do something about it.

Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Obviously, from a Fine Gael perspective, I have no difficulty with the Minister examining the number of agencies in existence and trying to make the system more efficient and cost effective. The Minister has agreed that the work of MABS is important, but there is nothing more disconcerting for an organisation, trying to do good work, than not knowing where it stands. I ask the Minister to conduct his review as quickly and efficiently as possible.

What other agencies is the Minister examining? I presume he is referring to agencies within his own remit, but is it every agency operating under the auspices of his Department or a select few?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I do not want this discussion to go too far beyond the scope of the question posed.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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There are some specific reviews taking place but what led me down this path was that I did not just want to look at one or two organisations but rather get a general sense of what is going on, in terms of the role of the Department and the role and remit of the various agencies. I wanted to examine what caused them to be set up, what they are doing and what they are supposed to be doing. I am conducting a general examination, as best I can, without delaying the process forever. I agree with Deputy Shortall in that regard. I do not want this to become an ongoing process.

I know the value of MABS, having met many people who work for that organisation, many doing so on a voluntary basis. They are doing tremendous work. Equally, I have met people who have interacted with MABS. There is nothing interfering with the process of what MABS is doing. What I want to do is develop a new statutory structure around MABS and do that in the most efficient way I can.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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I cannot understand why it is taking so long. While I accept the Minister is not very long in office, one must ask what his predecessor was doing for the past five years, from the time the Bill was scrapped in 2002. Was any work done within the Department regarding MABS? It is all very well paying lip service, saying this is a great organisation which does fantastic work, but if that work is not recognised within the Department and is not given priority in terms of preparing legislation, that is a very poor reflection on the Department.

I wish to broaden the discussion vis-À-vis the other questions that have been grouped with Question No. 106. We know that in 2006, the average level of debt of clients attending MABS was approximately €6,500. Last year, that went up substantially, to €7,600, which represents an increase in indebtedness of 17%. Does the Minister believe that reflects on the level of payments provided by his Department, given that many MABS clients are in receipt of social welfare payments? Does it raise significant questions about the income support that his Department is providing? Why does the Minister think there has been such a substantial increase in the level of indebtedness?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I do not agree with the first point the Deputy made. She is correct in saying that a lot of work was done on MABS and a Bill was almost ready. I have taken the view that it should be put on hold and the Deputy can judge in the months to come whether I am correct. I want to complete this review quickly and put a new structure, statutorily based, around MABS. However, the timing is right from my perspective. My predecessors have all done tremendous work. The role of the Department has changed dramatically. It is now issuing over €17 billion of taxpayers' money every year, making it the biggest spending Department. We have a responsibility to make sure we get the best value for money out of that.

The reasons people's indebtedness has risen are many and varied. One of the key reasons has been the enormous growth in income coupled with very low interest rates, which encouraged people to borrow in various ways and at various levels in the past few years. One of the difficulties that MABS comes across consistently with people who get into trouble is their inability to understand and manage their money. Where two families live side by side, with the same income, one family may function extremely well while the family next door is in great financial difficulty. A lot of the problems relate to education levels, understanding and literacy issues. MABS has found this is the case with their clients, who are not just those in receipt of social welfare payments, I might add.

I heard of an interesting case recently where a businessman went to MABS. He had a number of employees and everything was falling down around him. He went in and put all his cards on the table and it was surprising the dramatic turnaround that occurred simply by MABS assisting him to manage what had started out as a one-person operation but which had expanded considerably. MABS facilitates people right across the social spectrum and income levels.