Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)

I do not agree with the first point the Deputy made. She is correct in saying that a lot of work was done on MABS and a Bill was almost ready. I have taken the view that it should be put on hold and the Deputy can judge in the months to come whether I am correct. I want to complete this review quickly and put a new structure, statutorily based, around MABS. However, the timing is right from my perspective. My predecessors have all done tremendous work. The role of the Department has changed dramatically. It is now issuing over €17 billion of taxpayers' money every year, making it the biggest spending Department. We have a responsibility to make sure we get the best value for money out of that.

The reasons people's indebtedness has risen are many and varied. One of the key reasons has been the enormous growth in income coupled with very low interest rates, which encouraged people to borrow in various ways and at various levels in the past few years. One of the difficulties that MABS comes across consistently with people who get into trouble is their inability to understand and manage their money. Where two families live side by side, with the same income, one family may function extremely well while the family next door is in great financial difficulty. A lot of the problems relate to education levels, understanding and literacy issues. MABS has found this is the case with their clients, who are not just those in receipt of social welfare payments, I might add.

I heard of an interesting case recently where a businessman went to MABS. He had a number of employees and everything was falling down around him. He went in and put all his cards on the table and it was surprising the dramatic turnaround that occurred simply by MABS assisting him to manage what had started out as a one-person operation but which had expanded considerably. MABS facilitates people right across the social spectrum and income levels.

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