Dáil debates

Wednesday, 6 February 2008

Ceisteanna — Questions

Departmental Expenditure.

10:30 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his Department's Estimate for 2008; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30765/07]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his Department's Estimate for 2008. [31972/07]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on the 2008 Estimate for his Department. [35281/07]

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 3, inclusive, together.

The total allocation for my Department in the Estimates set out in the budget book for 2008 is €45.394 million. This is an increase of 4%, or €1.658 million, on the 2007 Revised Estimate allocation. I look forward to addressing specific issues relating to the Estimates provisions when they are considered in the usual way by the Oireachtas Committee on Finance and the Public Service. I also look forward to responding to questions that Deputies may wish to table separately in regard to specific aspects of the work of my Department.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When can we expect to see the education patronage Bill? We face a new reality given that approximately 3,000 schools are under the patronage of the church. The Bill is not expected in 2008 but it is an important matter. Does the Taoiseach have any idea when we might see it? I think I am on the wrong line here because I should be asking the Taoiseach questions about his Estimate.

Photo of John O'DonoghueJohn O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is okay. It happens to us all.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What is the ongoing function of the Ireland-Newfoundland partnership? How many times has it met? It was set up under the Taoiseach's predecessor, John Bruton. Is there a body in the Taoiseach's Department, or a group of public servants, which deal with this? Does it have ongoing contacts with its counterparts in Newfoundland?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In fairness to him, John Bruton put a considerable effort into this project. It was the one thing he asked me to keep going. At the time, we brought it back to my Department and we put in place a dedicated small group which drives it. It is very active and it has been built on from that time. There is a considerable amount of collaboration. It has developed in many areas and there is much contact on the marine side because of Newfoundland's considerable knowledge of the marine. Although I do not know the figure off the top of my head, quite a large number of Irish business people have become involved in business working with the partnership. Several joint studies have been done and there has been a large number of delegations, mainly business ones but also teaching and academic ones. Each year there is a dedicated programme. It has been a very good project with a very small number of dedicated people.

The last few Prime Ministers of Newfoundland have visited here several times and they take the project very seriously because of the connections. I think 60% to 70% of Newfoundland's population is of Irish origin. The project has moved from being a cultural one, although that aspect continues and many books have been written and publications produced. It has developed particularly on the marine side because Newfoundland is very sophisticated and advanced in this area. It has worked here exchanging its technology, research and exploration, which is a major issue for it because its livelihood depends on it. It has proved to be a very successful project and continues to involve a large number of people.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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What is the cost of the communications unit in the Taoiseach's Department? If I recall correctly, a number of weeks ago the Taoiseach said that one of the fundamental reasons for having the unit in his Department was that it cut out the requirement on other Departments to collect information. Yet questions tabled in the last two weeks clearly pointed out an extraordinary amount of money being spent by Departments on agencies collecting newspaper cuttings and bits and pieces of information. Was the communications unit set up to do away with the requirement on other Departments to collect information and spend money on agencies to provide them with these newspaper cuttings? Yet they still seem to be doing this. What is the position? Does the Taoiseach's communications unit, whatever it costs, dispense that information to Ministers and Departments? If so, does that mean Departments should not have to employ agencies to engage in newspaper cutting exercises?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is it. Most Departments use it on a daily basis and several hundred people receive the news format everyday. If they want transcripts or information, they get that as well. I do not see why any of them are using anything else, particularly for audio and written information. What happened previously was that every Department and agency had contracts with these organisations. The only media not covered is rural radio stations and rural newspapers. It covers the national radio stations and national newspapers.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I understand from that reply that the Taoiseach believes Departments should not duplicate the information they receive from his Department. The response to the questions tabled to Departments on this showed that they spent €674,000 last year in media monitoring, apparently contracted out to different media monitoring bodies.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I think the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food was monitoring the rural media. The communications unit does not monitor any of the non-national newspapers.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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According to this information, the Department of Health and Children, the Taoiseach's Department and the Department of Foreign Affairs are spending €125,000, €129,000 and €53,000, respectively, on media monitoring. It seems a bit wasteful that Departments are going elsewhere if the Taoiseach's Department's media monitoring unit is providing the service.

There is a new item in the 2008 Estimate. Some €750,000 is being provided for an organisational review programme. What is that about? There is a provision for €200,000 for commemoration initiatives. What are we commemorating this year?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have the breakdown of the commemorations. Last year the big event was the commemoration of the flight of the earls. The remaining part of the commemoration of that finishes in the middle of April. There are usually commemorations North and South for which funding is applied. They are mainly historical events, depending on the anniversary. Historical societies receive this money but must make a submission which is considered by the section in the Department. Sometimes they receive a big grant but mostly they receive grants of €25,000 or €30,000. They also receive help to produce books and in the past few years, Robert Emmet, the flight of the earls and the man from Foxford, County Mayo, of whose name Deputy Kenny will remind me, have been covered.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Admiral Brown.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the organisational review programme, two years ago we asked the implementation group of Secretaries General to develop proposals on four interlinked initiatives on the next phase of modernisation of the public service which comes within the remit of my Department. This includes a series of organisational health checks. It is known as the organisational review programme. Organisational reviews will examine the capabilities of Departments to meet their current service delivery requirements and deal effectively with future changes in direction and new challenges. It comes under the group of Secretaries General across Departments.

Specifically, the reviews will look at the structures, capabilities, procedures and leadership capabilities across the Civil Service. The organisational review programme will comprise eight staff — four principal officers, one assistant principal, two administrative officers and one clerical officer. The four principal posts are filled by principal officers seconded from the Departments of Finance, Social and Family Affairs, Health and Children and the Office of the Revenue Commissioners. The remainder of the team will come from within my Department.

Some €760,000 is being provided for this year to cover the cost which is mainly salaries — €660,000; travel and subsistence — €10,000; publication of reports — €30,000; and consultancy — €50,000. They are answerable to the committee of Secretaries General which is driving this.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. With regard to the commemorations, I would like him to look at the possibility of providing funding for commemoration of the sinking of the RMS Leinster, which was the biggest sea tragedy we have experienced and which was sunk by a German U-boat while carrying many of the soldiers who were going back to fight at the front in the First World War. It was an episode in our history that was buried for many decades for historical reasons. In recent years, there have been commemorations of that event and the Taoiseach might look at it as something worthy of State support.

We all agree that carrying out a health check on the performance of the public service is desirable. Is this analysis going to take account in any way of the impact of decentralisation on the performance of the public service, especially the Civil Service? Most Departments have not carried out a risk analysis of the decentralisation process and how it will impact on the overall performance of the relevant Departments. Is the impact of decentralisation on the performance of the Civil Service to be included in the terms of reference of this particular examination?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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A couple of Departments were picked out, which I believe were the Department of Social and Family Affairs and the Department of Health and Children. The examination will take everything into account. It is trying to figure out where these Departments will be over the next number of years. The senior civil servants such as Secretaries General will look at how they can improve their efficiencies and the structures they operate, which will obviously take decentralisation into account, but they will also look at their capabilities, procedures and leadership capacities. The examination will take in a broad range of how to go forward over five to ten years. It will be a comprehensive review.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I have two questions on the Estimates. There has been a provision of €5,000 for the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation. Is it not time formally to wind up this forum, which has long served its purpose? Does the Taoiseach agree that what is needed now is the establishment of forums provided for in the Good Friday Agreement? I refer to the all-Ireland consultative civic forum and the all-Ireland interparliamentary forum. Does he agree that their establishment is long overdue nearly a decade after the agreement? Will he wind up the forum provided for in the Estimates and press for the setting up of these bodies with the appropriate funding to carry out their functions?

The second matter was previously raised by Deputy Gilmore regarding the funding available for the commemoration. I do not think it is appropriate to do justice to one of the big commemorations which the State should be holding this year, which is the 150th anniversary of the founding of the Irish Republican Brotherhood. That was one of the most influential organisations, not only in Ireland, but also in the US and Canada. It was very much to the fore in Ireland's political, cultural and military history. Is the Government planning to mark that anniversary on 17 March with an appropriate commemoration?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a nominal figure put in for some of these subheads that are coming to the end of their natural life. The subheads are kept in the Estimates process for a while because if they are closed, they cannot be paid. Therefore, these small nominal amounts are put in for technical financial reasons until it is quite clear that the subhead is defunct. No activity is envisaged for the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation, which is under subhead J. There is also a nominal amount for the commission of investigation in case it is required, but there is no plan that it would be required. It will fall off the list in a year or two.

The procedure for commemorations is that a certain amount of money is put in under the Estimates and the Department tries to get approval for it. Then it is open to organisations that are having commemorative events every year. They are usually very well organised, like the flight of the earls group, which ran activities throughout many parts of the country, culminating in a function in Dublin Castle back in November. Groups submit their plans in order to obtain resources under the subhead, so it is not based on what the Government is commemorating. It is just used to assist organisations that are also involved in fundraising to obtain resources. There are not many new commemorations this year. There is a stamp commemoration which takes anniversaries of historical occasions into account, but that is separate and is carried out by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources.

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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In the past the State funded and ran groups such as the 1798 committee. That committee was set up in the Department of An Taoiseach and it worked very well. The same process occurred when commemorating the Famine. I thought the Department would have set up some type of commemorative event or at least mark the occasion of the founding of the IRB. Is there any person within the Department who looks at future events which the State should commemorate? The State should do this, rather than always depend on small, underfunded groups to come up with initiatives.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Department has been very active in helping to co-ordinate the events commemorating the flight of the earls, which runs to April. Obviously there are people in my Department already engaged in activity for 2016. A cross-departmental group is being co-ordinated by my own officials, who also helped out the group commemorating Admiral Brown. Every year a number of smaller groups look for grants. To the best of my knowledge, the flight of the earls commemoration does not end until the summer and my officials are involved in that and in commemorating 2016. I do not think there is any other event, but I am subject to correction.

Photo of P J SheehanP J Sheehan (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach spoke about the flight of the earls, but is he aware of the flight of the farmers from the land of Ireland? I have a question on the proposed legislation on holding a referendum on the Lisbon treaty and the possible timing of this referendum. Is the Taoiseach aware of the serious concerns expressed by the president of the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association and the president of the Irish Cattle and Sheep Farmers Association about World Trade Organisation, WTO, talks regarding possible concessions the EU Trade Commissioner is making, for which he has no mandate? Has he, as Taoiseach, sought binding assurances from Commission President José Manuel Barroso that Commissioner Mandelson cannot go beyond the mandate that was confirmed at the EU Council of Ministers in October 2005? I acknowledge the efforts of the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Deputy Mary Coughlan, in defending Irish agriculture, but the Taoiseach must now row in behind the farmers because they are increasingly concerned that too much of our economy has been lost to European bureaucrats. They will need strong reassurances before acceding to the referendum on the reform treaty. This is a very important matter that I hope the Taoiseach will defend to the best of his ability and support the Minister for Agriculture and Food in trying to have a proper deal in place before the referendum.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is an important issue and I agree with Deputy Sheehan. The mandate of the European Union as enunciated a few years ago is one I have defended all the way through. Deputy Sheehan is referring to the efforts now being made as regards the WTO talks. It appears that attempts will be made to have movement on this over the spring period. It will be about the fourth or fifth time Commissioner Mandelson and others will have tried this, and they are making serious efforts again. It creates risks for Ireland every time this round of negotiations comes up. We shall do everything possible, both on the trade side and the agricultural side. Most of this business is now concentrated on the trade side and a majority of countries negotiate under this forum rather than on the agricultural side, which always creates a problem for Ireland. However, we shall continue to fight our corner to the best of our ability.

Photo of Olivia MitchellOlivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I believe the Taoiseach might have received direct representations from the trade union movement as regards the possibility of funding or co-funding for a commemorative film about James Connolly, in the context of the 1916 Rising. Is the Department of the Taoiseach in a position to provide help with the production of such a film?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the type of project we usually support. The film is just one aspect. The Irish Congress of Trade Unions and SIPTU, in particular, has a comprehensive plan for Liberty Hall, one of the most important sites relating to 1916. The ICTU has a project in train as regards rebuilding Liberty Hall, while keeping the cultural and artistic centre it opened a number of years ago. That project is being looked at and the film will be the easy part. The overall plan will be more difficult.