Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 9: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of those staff choosing to decentralise to Killarney with his Department who are staff of his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31560/07]

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 12: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of staff opting for decentralisation to Kilkenny with the Arts Council who are relocating from Dublin; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31564/07]

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Question 14: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of the staff opting for decentralisation under either phase one or two who are relocating from Dublin; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31515/07]

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 18: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of Arts Council staff who have requested transfer to Kilkenny under the decentralisation scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31561/07]

Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Question 32: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of non-Arts Council who staff have requested transfer to Kilkenny under the decentralisation scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31562/07]

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 94: To ask the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism the full extent to which his Department has implemented the Government's decentralisation programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [31844/07]

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 9, 12, 14, 18, 32 and 94 together.

Under the Government's decentralisation programme, the entire Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism with the exception of the national archives, comprising approximately 130 posts, has been designated as one of the "early mover" Departments by the Decentralisation Implementation Group. Deputies will be aware that the Government recently reaffirmed its commitment to the full implementation of the decentralisation programme, as provided for in the programme for Government, including the movement of departmental headquarters. Significant progress has been made to that end. I expect the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism will have fully relocated to new premises in Killarney by the end of next year.

The original number of applications received under the central application facility for transfer to Killarney exceeded the numbers required for all of the grades, with the exception of the principal officer grade where there is a shortfall of five. Eight of the staff members originally serving in the Department have indicated they wish to relocate with the Department. The process of transferring staff from other Departments and offices who had applied through the CAF commenced in 2005 on a phased basis. Some 80 staff who have opted to relocate are now in place in the Department. Some 70 staff, 24 of whom relocated from Dublin, have relocated to temporary accommodation at Fossa in Killarney in two phases. The first phase in September 2006 involved the transfer of 46 staff and the second phase in July of this year involved a further 24 staff. A further ten staff who are based in the Department's offices in Dublin are due to transfer. Seven workers who are still listed on the CAF to transfer to my Department are based in Dublin. The remaining staff in the Department who do not want to move to Killarney will transfer to other Departments in Dublin or Departments which are scheduled to decentralise to other locations. This ongoing process will proceed until all officers who are not transferring to Killarney are transferred to other organisations. Following a tendering process, the OPW selected PJ Hegarty and Sons to develop the permanent building for the Department's headquarters in Killarney, under a design-build fixed price contract. The OPW is managing the project for my Department. The construction of the new building in Killarney commenced in May of this year and the anticipated completion date is the last quarter of 2008.

Three agencies operating under the aegis of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism have also been selected to decentralise, including the Arts Council which is to move to Kilkenny. None of these bodies was designated as an early mover. All the prepared decentralisation plans which were submitted to the Decentralisation Implementation Group in 2004 are under review and are being revised. Some 49 staff are employed in the Arts Council. Forty applications have been received under the CAF from people who wish to transfer to Killarney. None of the staff of the Arts Council at the time of the announcement of the programme has opted to relocate. The employment contracts of seven staff members who have been recruited since the announcement contain a relocation condition. The Office of Public Works is assessing a number of options for suitable locations and properties in Kilkenny for the Arts Council. I have asked the chairs of the agencies under the remit of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, including the Arts Council, to renew the drive to make progress on their transfer under the decentralisation programme. Furthermore, the Secretary General of my Department, together with the CEOs of the three agencies, met the Decentralisation Implementation Group last week to discuss the progress that has been made so far and to discuss future plans for the relocation of the bodies.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Some renewed drive will be required if the staff of the Arts Council are to move to Kilkenny. Not one of them wants to go. I did not catch all the figures given by the Minister. How many of the 170 staff of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism — I do not refer to the staff of other Departments who are prepared to work in the decentralised Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism — have opted to participate in the decentralisation programme?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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The Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism has 130 staff. Some 229 people who wish to work in the Department's decentralised offices are on the central application facility list.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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How many of them are from the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Seventy officials have already moved to Killarney.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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How many of them moved from the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Deputy asking how many of the current Killarney staff came from the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, as opposed to other Departments?

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Yes. Perhaps that information was in the Minister's answer.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Some of them came from other Departments and agencies. Some of them came from Cork. Some of them did not come directly from the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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That is really my concern. The Department will end up with additional staff in Dublin that it does not need, at least for a period of time until they can be relocated, and that will have financial implications. These changes will also have implications for the running of the Department. Will the Department lose administrative staff during the relocation? Will it lose policy staff? At what level will these changes have an affect? Will all the principal officers and assistant secretaries be lost to the Department? Will the Secretary General continue to work in the Department? Who exactly is going and who is not? This move has huge potential to cause the Department to lose expertise and experience. I would like to tease out whether the Minister shares such concerns. Having the wrong staff is almost worse than having too many staff. Does the Minister agree there may be problems of co-ordination and cohesion if the Arts Council is in Kilkenny, the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism is in Killarney, most of our cultural institutions are in Dublin and the tourism bodies are split between this jurisdiction and the North? The various strands of the Department's activity will be all over the place. I wonder if these plans are manageable, particularly if the Department ends up with policy staff who are entirely new to the business.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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It would be wrong of me to pretend that this is an easy process or that it is painless for the staff involved. The Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism is finding it fairly traumatic to move such a large number of people and to implement the changes which are associated with that in terms of policy personnel. The Government is committed to its decentralisation policy — everybody is doing their best to make it a success — and it will settle down in due course. I appreciate that the transition period is not an easy one for many people. Those who have been based in Dublin for a long time are finding it particularly difficult. Over 80 staff in the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, which has been designated as one of the "early movers", are now based in Killarney. We intend to move all our staff down there, including our senior policy people.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Are all the senior policy people going?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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The Department will probably be the first Department to decentralise completely.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Are all of the top policy people, including the assistant secretaries and the principal officers, going to Killarney?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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That is the intention.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Have they chosen to go?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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That process, which involves the central applications facility, is ongoing.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister does not sound too hopeful.

Mary Upton (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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I am somewhat mesmerised by the subdivisions within the figures given by the Minister in respect of those who are to move out of Dublin. I am interested in the wider aspects of decentralisation. How many of those who are relocating to Killarney are moving from places other than Dublin? Will those people be included in the statistics which will be given as part of the overall monitoring of the decentralisation out of Dublin? I am curious about the transfer of public servants between offices outside Dublin, particularly if such relocations are to be counted as part of the decentralisation programme.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I acknowledge that the decentralisation process involves a strong element of relocation. Some of the numbers I have seen indicate that approximately two thirds of the staff who will move to Killarney will be relocating, as opposed to decentralising from Dublin. It depends on how the central applications facility finally makes decisions about different grades. It is fair to acknowledge the significant element of relocation which accounts for one half to two thirds in many cases. It is hoped this will level out as the central applications facility does its work and liaises with Departments and agencies

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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There will be additional costs incurred due to the loss of experienced staff and the loss of corporate memory and these will be over and above the obvious costs such as new buildings. Has a training budget been put aside as new staff may come from Departments which have nothing to do with arts, sport or tourism?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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My administrative budget includes whatever costs are involved in decentralisation or relocation, including necessary training.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Is it the intention to keep this Department together as a single unit? How does the Minister go to Killarney, to Kilkenny and to where ever the tourism section of his Department will be located? How can he possibly drive to Killarney one day and go from there to Kilkenny? Is there any intention of keeping a departmental presence in Dublin?

I wish to give an example of how the Department facilitates members of the public. I know of a club which was anxious to submit an application for a grant. The closing date for submission was near and a representative of the club took the train to Killarney to deliver the application form. He told me that there was quite a number of people who had also travelled to Killarney to reach the office. It does not make much sense that in order to submit an application form, people have to take the train to Killarney. Is there no way to organise a facility in the capital city to provide advice about grants or the lodgement of application forms or whatever may be required? I appreciate that, heretofore, people in County Kerry had to travel to Dublin but, by and large, a greater volume of people from the greater Dublin area would need the advice and assistance of the section of the Department dealing with sport.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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All Departments, the Civil Service and the public service, face significant challenges as a result of the decentralisation process. The central applications facility and the decentralisation unit in the Department of Finance are involved in the careful planning of decentralisation so that its voluntary nature is maintained and that it meets the needs of as many families as possible and with the least amount of disruption. I imagine it will be agreed with Departments as to whether individual Departments keep a facility in the capital. It would be practical to have some facility available in Dublin city.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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How will the Minister manage to deal with three different locations?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Decentralisation is not built around individual Ministers or ministries and it should not be. A strategic approach was adopted as to the locations. I do not see it as a matter for the individual careers of individual political people. The headquarters of a Department will be in a certain location and the Minister in charge of that Department will have to get themselves there.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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In the case of the Minister it is not just a single Department because it is responsible for arts, sport and tourism. The three sections of the Department are not going to the one location. It is an impossible task. The Minister's senior officials will be in Kilkenny, in Killarney and in another location. Will they travel to meet the Minister or will he travel to meet them?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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If I lived in County Donegal, it would be the same problem.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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The seat of government is in Dublin. Will the Minister outline to the House how he intends to ensure he is able to be present in the Departments for which he is responsible? Is it a case that he will never be there?

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The mountain must come to Mohammed.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I have visited the Killarney offices and will do so on a regular basis.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Is it the intention that Ministers will base themselves in decentralised offices? Will the Minister maintain an office in Dublin and, if so, will it be staffed by his personal, constituency or communications adviser? Will departmental policy-makers be retained in Dublin?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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These are broader questions connected with the decentralisation programme generally and on which policy decisions will need to be taken.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister's Department is the front runner.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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It is not appropriate that I take those kind of policy decisions just for my Department at this time. We are one of the early movers and all our staff are committed to moving——

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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At least half of them are not committed to moving.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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Nobody is moving.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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We are committed to moving the Department.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is committed.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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It is Government policy to move the Department.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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That is different from saying the staff are committed.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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That policy is being implemented. I believe it will be successful when it settles down. I believe it will be to the benefit of the entire nation and not just to the capital city; it will also work to the benefit of the regions. Individual arrangements about very senior civil servants and Ministers have yet to be finally worked out.