Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 October 2007

Ceisteanna — Questions.

National Security Committee.

2:30 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach when the interdepartmental group established to monitor the threat of a terrorist attack will next meet; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16818/07]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if the interdepartmental group on State security, established following the 11 September 2001 atrocities, is still functioning; the role of same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18789/07]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach if the interdepartmental committee on State security, established in the aftermath of the 11 September 2001 attacks in the USA, is functioning; the last occasion on which the committee met; when the next meeting is planned; the Departments represented on the committee; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21545/07]

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 to 9, inclusive, together.

Having regard to the confidential nature of the work of the National Security Committee, it would not be appropriate to disclose information about the dates of individual meetings nor any of its proceedings.

The committee is chaired by the Secretary General to the Government and comprises representatives at the highest level of the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Defence and Foreign Affairs and of the Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces. It is concerned with ensuring that I and the Government are advised of high level security issues and the responses to them, but not involving operational security matters.

The committee meets as required and will continue to do so. In addition to their meetings, the members liaise on an ongoing basis to monitor developments that might have national security implications, in particular in the international arena.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is about two years since the Taoiseach confirmed in the House that there were a number of personnel in this city who were linked to cells of al-Qaeda and at that time he indicated that these persons were under observation. Is that still the case or have they left this jurisdiction? Is there evidence of their being involved in fringe activities or other activities in so far as terrorist attacks are concerned?

The Taoiseach did not indicate the dates of meetings, but on 30 June last persons drove an SUV which was on fire through the entry doors of the arrivals hall of Glasgow Airport. Did the committee dealing with security consider such an eventuality in Dublin or elsewhere? Had that situation in Glasgow been somewhat worse there could have been serious loss of life. Was consideration given to that by the committee?

As I often asked, what position are we in now were news to be transmitted to the Taoiseach's Department or the security committee that an aircraft from another country was on its way here with serious intent of destruction? Have we the capacity to prevent such an occurrence were it made known to us? Would we have to call in the RAF or how would such an eventuality be dealt with——

Photo of Noel CoonanNoel Coonan (Tipperary North, Fine Gael)
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Send out Willie.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——or prevented?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the general situation, with issues such as that which occurred in the UK during the summer, the security committee, particularly the Garda and the Army, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and the Department of Defence, continually monitors these issues. Most of the information on an international level comes from Europol and Eurojust.

I do not want to discount the matter, but the general view of the committee, on many of its consultations and meetings with me is that, while it is exchanging information, it is looking at the collective assessment on an ongoing basis, and there is no particular threat to us whatsoever. There are, however, at any one time a small number of international individuals, in or out of the country, who are monitored. Some of those are here on a long-term basis and some of them visit, but they are monitored. They probably know they are monitored across the jurisdictions. They comprise a small hard core of people who are under observation throughout Europe and who travel extensively, not in this jurisdiction but throughout numerous jurisdictions. The numbers of known people are very small but they are kept under observation.

Increasingly, and this has been the case for a number of years, the assessments of this committee are internationally based. Obviously, we keep close contacts with the UK, not just on security issues but on broader issues. We have been extending our bilateral contacts not just on security issues, but on broader issues where our Secretaries General are in communication. More regular meetings will take place now under Prime Minister Brown's jurisdiction where they will meet with their counterparts in the UK not just on security issues, which obviously will be on the agenda also, but on other issues. They tend to meet twice a year but there is a constant exchange of information among the security authorities, including Europol and Eurojust, on various issues.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In his response to Deputy Kenny, the Taoiseach indicated that, in his view, there is no threat to us whatsoever. Does that also reflect the view of the interdepartmental group and has it examined in detail the security implications for the people of this country of the Taoiseach continuing to allow the use of Shannon as a staging post in the Iraq war?

Given that the US authorities are employing the services of what can only be described as private armies in the Iraq conflict, are they also being afforded access to the facilities at Shannon? For instance, does Blackwater, which has been associated with atrocities in Iraq, use Shannon as a throughway going to and from its engagements in Iraq? Although they are private companies, are they posing as civilians and being afforded the same facilitation as so-called regular USforces?

Has the Taoiseach ever raised with the British Prime Minister, now retired from that office, or the new occupant of No. 10 Downing St, the continuing threat to the people of this country from the presence of weapons of mass destruction on the neighbouring island of Britain, namely, its nuclear arsenal? There is a well-documented threat in regard to its civil nuclear facilities at Sellafield, to give but one example, but there is also presumably a threat to the safety of the people of this island from the arsenal of weapons of mass destruction held by the British Government in the name of the people of the island of Britain. Has the Taoiseach ever raised the concerns of the people of Ireland regarding the presence of such weaponry in close proximity to our population?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have made overflight and landing facilities available to the US authorities for over 50 years. That covered many crises and military confrontations, several of which involved the US taking military action and most, but not all, of which had UN endorsement. I refer to Kosovo, Vietnam and other places. We have never withdrawn or suspended these facilities at any stage during that prolonged period. Our position, like other countries involved in this issue, is clearly understood by all sides. This does not pose a difficulty for us.

We have not only raised the issue of nuclear plants, but we have taken action on a number of fronts in the life of the previous Government under various UN protocols. We have continued the process of engagement at EU level since the last judgment in which the EU accepted it had a responsibility. We have won considerable support from the Nordic countries and others to take some of those actions, which we have extensively followed through over a long period. We will continue to make our views known. The increased inspectorate, the visits and all of the other controls that have been forced on the UK authorities arose from the various actions we have taken.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In his reply I understood the Taoiseach to say the number of suspected terrorists under surveillance is quite small. I am sure we are all relieved to hear that. However, if that is the case, why did the Garda need to make 10,000 applications for access to private telephone records in 2006? Will the Taoiseach explain how many additional requests were made by the Garda, which has the power to make such requests under the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am talking about the international dimension, not home-grown people who——

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We have 10,000 requests at home.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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While I am not in the justice brief, I know enough to know that any one case can take quite a lot of effort in a given year.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There were 10,000 requests to access telephone records.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy would need to see how some of these people operate. I am sure the Garda would gladly provide him with a security briefing at some stage.

On the international front, we are dealing with quite a small number of people. I am talking about those people moving around this country who are involved in international terrorism and who attract the attention of Europol and Eurojust, as distinct from those who are involved here.