Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Question 91: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government his view of the decision by the Dutch Government to abandon the use of electronic voting machines; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23020/07]

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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An official report has recently been published in the Netherlands about the Nedap electronic voting system which is in operation there. An official English translation of the report is not yet available. The House will appreciate that I do not propose to comment until I have received the report and had an opportunity to consider it. I understand the committee which prepared the report was established after last year's Dutch elections and that the Dutch Parliament will discuss the report in early December. I am aware of reports of a recent court judgment in the Netherlands to the effect that electronic voting machines should not be used in a mayoral election in Utrecht. I understand this decision was made on the basis of non-compliance with the legal certification procedures governing the use of the system in the Netherlands. The case was initiated before the committee's report was published and the events are unrelated. The House will recall that the final report of the Commission on Electronic Voting last year concluded that the voting equipment chosen for use in Ireland could be used subject to further work which was also recommended, such as the replacement of the election management software, the adaptation of the equipment and the undertaking of further end-to-end testing. As I have indicated to the House, I am considering the next steps to be taken in the electronic voting and counting project. I will take into account the commission's report, any relevant findings from the Netherlands, the need to maintain public confidence in the electoral process and the provisions in the programme for Government relating to electoral reform generally.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I am surprised the Dutch report on the ineffectiveness of the electronic voting machines and the real need to scrap them has not been translated into English by the Minister's colleagues in the Green Party in the Netherlands or the translators in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Is the Minister in favour of the electronic voting machines which were given a trial run in some constituencies a number of years ago and have been criticised by the Green Party over recent years? The Minister's party suggested his predecessor as Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, should resign if he continued to advocate the use of the machines. The State has spent €60 million on electronic voting machines, including their storage. It cannot even get the storage capacity right at Gormanston Aerodrome. Will the Minister tell the House what he intends to do with the electronic voting machines, rather than hiding behind another Commission on Electronic Voting report?

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I have no intention of hiding behind any report. I said when I was in Opposition that I was in favour of electronic voting, in principle. I do not know Fine Gael's stance, in principle, on electronic voting. We need to ascertain whether electronic voting is effective and whether we can gain public confidence in it. I hope the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government can examine those matters, just as the Commission on Electronic Voting considered a number of issues in its report. While the possibility of providing for a voter verifiable audit trail was outside the thrust of the commission's report, most of the submissions which were received related to it so it was addressed in some detail. We have to examine whether we can give the public confidence in electronic voting, which is a matter that is being examined by the Department. We have spent approximately €51.3 million on these machines. That is a lot of money and I am not inclined to throw it away. I would like to see electronic voting working and to see if we can modify those machines. It would appear from the CEV report that they can be modified, but to what extent? A crucial question for me is whether we can get added value.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I think the Minister is trying to advocate something similar to what the Fianna Fáil Ministers did in the past — recycling the machines. The Minister knows that the Irish and Dutch jurisdictions are saying that this particular type of machine will not provide confidence in our democratic system. It will not ensure that the Irish people can vote and be confident that their intention may be verified. In the light of the Irish and Dutch experiences and the commission report at his disposal, there is no need for further evidence or reports. Will the Minister give an undertaking to the House that he will scrap these machines and start the process on electronic voting again?

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I need further evidence. I will not be bounced into a decision on this matter or give a knee jerk reaction to it. I would like electronic voting to work. After the recount of my votes in 1997, I was very clear that I wanted electronic voting.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Why is that?

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Electronic voting has the capacity to deliver more efficient voting. The Deputy is well aware how surpluses——

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The current system could deliver a different result.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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There are advantages and there are also possibilities of added value, for example, that people could vote from anywhere in the country and would not necessarily have to be in their own constituency. I would like to explore these possibilities. However, it may not be possible to do all of this. If I find that nothing can be done about these particular machines, we will have no alternative but——

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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How long will that take?

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I hope we will do it as quickly as possible.