Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Question 75: To ask the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he has had contacts with the Irish Postmasters Union; his views on the current conditions in terms non-automation for postmasters and postmistresses; if he has had discussions with An Post or the IPU regarding the decision of the postmasters and postmistresses not to handle the new financial services and packages facilitated by the joint venture with Fortis; his further views on whether the Fortis deal is in danger; if he will introduce a Green Paper on the national postal service network; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5525/07]

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Issues relating to the terms and conditions of postmasters and post office closures are, in the first instance, matters for the board and management of An Post and ones in which I have no statutory function. Despite this, I and some of my Cabinet colleagues have met representatives of the IPU on a number of recent occasions. I also addressed the IPU's annual conference in 2005 and 2006.

Last year, to facilitate and broaden the discussions between postmasters and An Post, I appointed Eamonn Ryan to examine issues of mutual concern and to propose a plan for their resolution. I, therefore, urge all parties to engage in negotiations in a positive manner with a view to reaching a mutually agreeable outcome.

The Government continues to be committed to the objective of securing and maintaining the largest economically sustainable post office network possible. This extends to the postmasters, whose financial security and strong relationship with customers are vital to the continued viability of the network.

Last September, Government approval was secured for An Post to enter a joint venture agreement with the Belgian bank, Fortis, to establish a retail banking business. Key to the Government approval of this joint venture was that it not only offers a real opportunity for the growth and development of An Post and the post office network but that it will, in time, greatly benefit the income streams of postmasters.

My Department and I receive regular updates on progress being made with the joint venture and have heard nothing to suggest the deal is in danger. An Post still expects the joint venture to launch its services in early 2007. I urge the IPU to reconsider the position it has taken in this regard, as the successful roll-out of the joint venture is of great importance to the future viability of the post office network and improving the welfare of postmasters by providing an alternative source of income. My Department and I, in the course of meetings with An Post, have also impressed upon the company the importance of engaging with the IPU on the joint venture.

I have no plans to publish a Green Paper on the post office network.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The remaining 1,300 postmasters and postmistresses have voted overwhelmingly not to engage with the Fortis project because of the dire circumstances in which they find themselves. Next Tuesday they, along with their families and supporters, will protest outside Leinster House at the Minister's management of the network for the past three years.

The Minister claims he has no plans to publish a Green Paper on the network. Why not? The British Government has launched three major postal network strategies in the past ten years to deal with some of the issues that have arisen there. Over the past several years, the Minister has acted as the undertaker for the postal network. In 2001, there were approximately 1,900 post offices when today there are barely over 1,300. Ten years ago it was twice the current figure. The Minister presides over a situation where a post office closes every ten days. The Minister's legacy of failure not just includes broadband roll-out and the demise of the fishing industry but also the demise of the post office network.

The Minister claims he has no responsibility for the salary conditions of postmasters. He must have responsibility when the majority of them earn less than the minimum wage of €17,900 per annum. Should any citizen have to live on less than the minimum wage? Up to 135 postmasters are earning less than €10,000 per annum. The Irish Farmers' Journal recently highlighted the individual case of the postmistress in Lombardstown, County Cork, Catherine Healy-Byrne. Her smiling face has been behind the counter for the past years but she is quoted:

To fill the contract with An Post, I must provide a premises, light, heat and insurance and stay open 9 a.m. to 5.30 p.m., Monday to Friday, and 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. on Saturday. And for providing that service I get €16,500 a year and I have to pay everything after that.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I must point out to the Deputy, it is not in order to quote on such matters.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Is that not a disgraceful situation over which the Minister presides?

Some 400 post offices are still not automated. The Minister must know the fundamental role played by post offices in rural Ireland. As the Irish Farmers' Journal stated in a recent article, the Minister has written the post mortem for rural Ireland in his failure to protect the post office network. Is it not time he produced a Green Paper on the network? He only came up with the energy Green Paper several months ago and the fishing Bill last year. With a few months left to an election, the post office network is disappearing. People are upset and will protest about it outside Leinster House next Tuesday but he has no answers. The Minister claims it is not his responsibility. It is his responsibility and he will be held responsible in 12 weeks time.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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I remind Deputy Broughan that I am only in this portfolio for two and a half years. I am delighted he noted I produced an energy Green Paper and shortly will produce an energy White Paper.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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And a fishing Green Paper last Sunday.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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I met the targets I set on broadband roll-out. I have tackled the underlying problems in the fishing industry. It is a formidable record for two and a half years. The first 12 months of my ministry were spent advancing the causes adopted by the CWU and ensuring An Post reached agreement with it to ensure the survival of the postal service.

It was nice of the Irish Farmers' Journal to highlight the plight of the rural postal network. Many of its readers will also be aware that many creameries and other facilities and employment in rural areas have closed. I did not notice the Irish Farmers' Journal highlight these closures.

I am sure the IPU did not put a non-participation clause in the talks with An Post when it proposed the Fortis deal to its 1,300 members.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What about the passports and the money transfers? There was a package.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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It is strange that a representative body, looking for extra remuneration for its members, would not negotiate on a deal that would do so. I do not understand that logic.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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There are other services. It is only one of many.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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The Fortis deal is the one area where the postmasters have the potential to gain extra remuneration. I cannot understand how a representative body which is demanding more remuneration for its members, breaks off negotiations when an offer, like that of Fortis, is made. Do all 1,300 members of the IPU realise what is happening? They should be aware of the possibility of getting some extra finance by concluding the negotiations on the Fortis deal.

I have a good working relationship with the IPU. I have been active in facilitating both sides in understanding each other's position. I appointed a facilitator, Mr. Eamonn Ryan, who produced an excellent report which will form the basis of negotiations. It is an illogical step to decide to march on the GPO and the Dáil and withdraw from talks that may give one's members extra remuneration.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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That is because they are desperate. Some 600 post offices have closed.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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I do not wish to be offensive to anybody but it seems illogical to me.

The post office network has one of the highest numbers of post offices per head of population in Europe.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister has halved the number.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Even the IPU recognises that. There are 4.2 outlets per 10,000 inhabitants compared with the European Union average of 2.7.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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That may have been the case in 1997 but the Minister needs to check the latest figures.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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The 900 post offices that were automated are processing 97% of the business of An Post. Significant numbers among the 400 that are not automated are run by elderly postmasters who do not want them to be automated.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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That is not correct. They want to automate their operations but were not allowed to do so.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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If negotiations could be concluded and a reasonable severance deal secured, they would be more than interested in moving out.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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That is the Minister's role.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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The IPU acknowledges in its report that there is a limited number of post offices that will survive into the future.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What is the number?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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We are trying to create——

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What is the Minister's strategy? He has talked for a long time but will not give us a number.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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I have not spoken as long as Deputy Broughan, who made a Second Stage speech and did not ask me one question.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I did.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We are asking now.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What does the Minister consider the optimum number that would be economically viable? What is his strategy for the post office network? Those are my questions. He is the Minister responsible for postal services.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Deputy finished so that I can answer his question? My strategy is to ensure that An Post, through its board and management, oversees a strong, viable and sustainable post office network that is good for the postmasters and for the postal service. It is up to An Post to decide the appropriate level.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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If the Government is re-elected there will be no post offices left.