Dáil debates
Wednesday, 15 November 2006
Leaders' Questions
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is a hallmark of this Government that it has no problem breaking promises it makes to the nation. We have had a litany of broken promises in the last period. We recall the promises made immediately after the "Prime Time" exposé of the happenings at Leas Cross nursing home, that there would be a new law within months, national standards and an independent inspectorate. All promises, all broken.
The situation in nursing homes is, in fact, worse. I could paper the walls of my office with the responses given by the Taoiseach and different Ministers about what would be done. We were told there would a national approach from the HSE, that it now has a robust inspection scheme and that it could assure us high standards were being enforced all round. All promises, all broken.
Today we learn from the reporter Fergal Bowers that a report in July of this year, 14 months after the Leas Cross programme, finds that dedicated inspection teams in the HSE are the exception and not the rule. Policies and procedures vary between, and even within, former health board areas and there is no consistency on whom teams report to. He makes the point that inspection teams can express serious concerns about a particular nursing home while, simultaneously, another arm of the HSE continues to place public patients in the same home.
How in the name of heavens can the Taoiseach stand over this? Four Ministers and Ministers of State have been involved in this: the former Minister, Deputy Martin, the current Minister, Deputy Harney, the current Minister of State, Deputy Seán Power, and the former Minister of State, Deputy Callely. The Taoiseach refused to apportion responsibility to anyone, either members of the health boards or his Ministers. This is a national scandal.
When Deputy Perry exposed the illegal taking of payments from long-stay patients in public institutions, the Taoiseach was able to introduce legislation within two days to try to make it legal retrospectively so the money could be kept. Here we are, 14 months after the Leas Cross programme, with no legislation or inspection regime. The Taoiseach himself told the House that the inspection regime dealing with Leas Cross was of the highest standards.
The Government has broken the promise on the law and broken the promise on new standards and new inspections. How many more old men and women must spend their last days with weeping bed sores while this debacle continues on this Government's watch? None of the four Ministers or Ministers of State at the Department of Health and Children accept responsibility for this.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I repeat what I said yesterday about the Leas Cross report, when I promised there would be a detailed account of the case that came up over a year ago. Professor Desmond O'Neill has identified many deficiencies in the standard of care for older people in Leas Cross and the actions required to uphold those standards. Those deficiencies in care are deeply upsetting to the families of those in Leas Cross, particularly the relatives of those who died in Leas Cross. The Government understands their distress and we will lead with the legislative action and funding decisions to ensure high standards of care are upheld in all nursing homes, public and private. We know from Professor O'Neill's report and others that complaints and warnings were not given the attention they warranted, a matter of deep regret.
Professor O'Neill examined these issues for a year but did not engage in a blame exercise and he did not recommend disciplinary action. I am not in a position to do what the person who spent a year examining it did not do. Some people involved have challenged his assessment, as is their right. The report has been sent to the Garda Síochána to enable it to take any action it considers appropriate and to the Irish Medical Council for its consideration. Our priority is to prevent this from happening again. That, rather than talking about what has happened, other than to express our regret and say they should not have happened, is what we are doing.
We established the Health Service Executive to introduce standards across services in every county and region. Those standards meet the highest international levels possible. We are finalising the health Bill 2006, which will be published in this session and will create a robust system of inspections. It will provide for the first time for a statutory office, the office of the chief inspector of social services within the HIQA organisation, with specific responsibility for the registration and inspection of all nursing home places, public and private, because they must all be examined. He or she will inspect the homes under the regulations governing them and the standards set by the authority. The Bill will also strengthen and modernise the registration and de-registration process. New standards for long-term residential care facilities for older people have already been prepared.
It is not the case that all nursing homes are staffed by people who could not care less about patients. That is an appalling picture to paint.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Who said that? We did not say that.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is twisting the facts. He is twisting the story.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has been stated here on a number of occasions that is the position. I reject that accusation. Like every other politician I visit nursing homes and I do not see that, I see hard working people, working for the State or private organisations, doing their best day in and day out to look after old patients. I understand most elderly patients and their relatives are extremely happy with the service they get.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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What does that have to do with the problem in Leas Cross?
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is twisting the story.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should take some responsibility for the mess.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is an attempt to shout down the facts in defence of those who work in nursing homes. The easiest thing to do is to come in here and apportion blame to everyone, to say nothing is right without ever standing up for those working every day to look after the elderly. That is an easy thing to do, the Opposition gets great marks for that.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Let the Taoiseach's Ministers take some responsibility.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Health and Children has published the draft heads of the Bill for public consultation and we have had many submissions, none of which came from politicians. The existing nursing home regulations, under which the HSE carries out inspections of private nursing homes, were introduced in 1993 and they were amended. There are regulations, which will now be replaced by newer regulations to be made under the proposed legislation, with the purpose of strengthening the standards for residents in homes.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach's remark and his allegation in trying to apportion blame to every other Deputy in this House is scurrilous, completely unfounded and is beneath him as Taoiseach.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Everybody in this House knows there are nursing homes of the highest standards around the country——
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——where people operate to the very highest levels of integrity. It is beneath the Taoiseach to make that comment. I am reading the report of the nursing homes inspections and registration working group which states clearly that there is no consistency and there is serious concern by one team about nursing homes and people being sent in there. If the Taoiseach was to show leadership in this matter, he would instruct the Minister for Health and Children to call together the committee dealing with health matters, Professor Drumm of the HSE, the leaders of these teams and Professor O'Neill to find out what is happening. The Minister for Finance will tomorrow produce his Estimates and he will have €600 million or €700 million on top of everything else for the capital programme. That is a long way from what is happening on the ground.
The Taoiseach rightly states that he wants to deal with standards across each county. He has correctly indicated that there are concerned citizens working in this area, and they cannot come forward because there is no whistleblower legislation. I have news for the Taoiseach, I have evidence from a person who will come forward. This is a case I have verified of a person in a nursing home being attended to by a professional nurse. My information states:
Now take the case of a lady with mental illness with discharging sores on her legs. She is also resident in a nursing home, and if I did not dress her legs every day in our centre she would come in every morning bare-legged, winter or summer, wearing slippers and the discharge running down her legs. After repeated calls to the nursing home, this lady came in one morning with nappy liners placed on open sores.
That is the standard the Taoiseach was talking about from some of these nursing homes. An inspection regime is needed to go in and sort this out. Where is the Minister for Health and Children this morning or the Ministers of State? Why are they not dealing with this?
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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They are gone into hiding.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is a national scandal. I have verified this case. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform can smirk all he likes as he knows nothing about it.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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They do you no good.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows nothing about this.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy is a fraud.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows nothing about this and the Minister for Health and Children is not here.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy is an amateur detective.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Kenny, without interruption.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will give the Minister this evidence and more. I will give it to the Taoiseach. This is a disgrace.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.
Paul Connaughton Snr (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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It is a disgrace. The Government should be ashamed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach spoke about having high standards across the country. The Government was able to bring in legislation within two days to take money back from people in long-stay public institutions. Why can it not introduce legislation or accept the patient safety authority, as proposed by the Labour Party and Fine Gael?
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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It is on the back of a postage stamp.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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It was planned on top of a beer mat.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It would deal with these issues comprehensively and to the highest standard, despite what the Tánaiste has said.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Government is pathetic.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The HSE established the working group on nursing home inspections and registrations in July 2005, shortly after the organisation was set up. It completed the report in early summer. The existence of the HSE working group report has been a matter of public record for some time. Deputy Kenny is asking me to ask it to engage in a matter that it has finished. This has been referred to publicly on a number of occasions, including in previous Dáil debates when the Minister for Health and Children answered questions. I am answering the questions today and the Minister for Health and Children has answered questions.
Among the recommendations of the report was the recruitment of dedicated inspection teams throughout the country. These teams would have staff with nursing, medical and mental health experience. They would also have other professionals available to them. The inspection teams would all work from the same standardised checklist to ensure conformity across the system. In addition, all inspections would be unannounced.
The working group's approach now underpins the inspection process for private nursing homes. The issues raised in the report underline the reason for the Government's decision to put the social services inspectorate on a statutory basis within the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA. It will be independent and will create a thorough and robust system of inspections.
When contracting with private nursing homes, the HSE does not send patients whose level of dependency is unsuited to the facility available. In a number of instances, the HSE may decide that a particular private home is unsuited to the needs of high dependency patients, but it does not mean the same home is unsuited to patients with lower levels of dependencies. The HSE has made important improvements to its nursing home inspections process since the working group report was completed in early summer. It has been working to standardise the reports and has engaged with the nursing home inspection teams and the private nursing home sectors.
With the greatest respect for Deputy Kenny, what he has asked me to do has already been done. The legislation——
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Who is taking responsibility?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Taoiseach to speak.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is necessary, I accept that.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation will be before this House and I hope Members help to get it through.
Damien English (Meath, Fine Gael)
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That was said last Christmas.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will provide for the first time for a statutory office, an office for the chief inspector of social services with specific responsibilities for registration and inspection in all nursing home places.
New standards for long-term residential care facilities for older people have been prepared. I am not saying everything is up to 100% in every single place in the country. If it was, we would not have had the working group report, we would not be bringing in legislation and we would not have had Professor O'Neill's report. We have put enormous resources into the HSE and we are putting legislation in place in this area. The last legislation in 1993, by and large, covered most of this ground. It is time to improve it now as time has moved on, although it is a relatively recent Act.
I dislike the effort — it is the easiest thing in the world to do — to find something somewhere and paint it as if it is the practice everywhere.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach paints it all.
Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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What about that woman?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach, without interruption.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputies' remarks are a disservice to the people.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach's head is in the sand.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is doing nothing.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Taoiseach to speak without interruption.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering one question and there are 25 Deputies shouting at me. I do not know why they will not let me answer. I listened to Deputy Kenny but the Deputies do not want me to answer because they know we are trying extremely hard to improve these issues. They know there are people in nursing homes today who are working very hard. They know where there are indiscretions and that some practices are not up to standard, and we try to deal with them to the best of our ability. The HSE is doing its utmost to resolve these issues, as are we. I will not jump up and blame somebody somewhere who perhaps was not up to the same standard.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach will not take the blame.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Pontius Pilate had nothing on the Taoiseach.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is grand for me to take the blame. Is it all about blaming somebody? Is it not about trying to make matters better for the future?
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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It is about political blame.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Government should do something about it. It has had nine years to do so.
Denis O'Donovan (Cork South West, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Deputy coming back to us?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I have raised here a number of times on Leaders' Questions and on the Adjournment the daily hell being experienced by motorists on the M50, specifically the blockage at the West Link toll bridge. In particular, I want to again raise the request I put to the Government on a number of occasions to have the barrier lifted while the renovation of the M50 is going on. I am sorry to interrupt the Tánaiste, but perhaps he will listen to me making the case before he advises the Taoiseach on the response.
I read in today's newspapers that the Government proposes to buy back the bridge from the private operator for approximately €600 million. Is that correct? Is it correct that the company is trying to negotiate tax advantage and exemption from capital gains tax should it arise as a result of that transaction?
Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy can be sure of that.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Is it correct that the ownership of the bridge will not be transferred until mid-2008? Is it the case, as the Secretary General of the Department has stated, that once the port tunnel is opened, 2,200 heavy goods vehicles will be decanted on to the bridge which, she said, is the equivalent of 6,600 cars per day, or one year's additional traffic on one day?
I want the Taoiseach to explain if it is the case that after spending €600 million to buy back the bridge, it is the Government's proposal to install tolls at four different points on the M50. It is not just the €600 million that is at issue here but the €900 million lost revenue estimated by DKM that would be outstanding on the contract to 2020. The cost is €1.5 billion to the State.
Is it the case that after paying out €1.5 billion, forgoing €900 million in revenue and paying out €600 million to the private operator, it is the intention and Government policy to levy tolls on a distributor road for Dublin? Motorists, who will be very pleased to hear that the bridge is being bought back in 2008, will not be so pleased to hear that there will be four tolling points installed on the road. What is going to happen between now and mid-2008 as motorists endure a nightmare, a daily hell, during the renovation of the M50 and the installation of grade intersections at a number of points? It is between now and mid-2008 that the Taoiseach needs to negotiate with that company to throw open the bridge for the duration of the refurbishment works.
Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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What will that achieve?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It would get the traffic moving.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In reply to Deputy Rabbitte, it is correct that the NRA decided at the beginning of this year, with the agreement of the Minister for Transport, to zero rate the West Link toll from mid-2008 and to compensate the NTR in accordance with the West Link agreement, the figures to be worked out in the negotiations as per the agreement. They also decided to terminate discussions with National Toll Roads and considered that a strategically commercial solution that met the objectives of the NRA with regard to the development and management of the M50 could not be achieved with National Toll Roads. There was a significant risk that NTR's proposals would infringe national and EU procurement rules and that was the reason for the decision.
On barrier-free, open road tolling, the zero rating of the West Link toll will take effect from approximately the third quarter of 2008 and that is still the position. Barrier-free tolling will then commence in conjunction with the completion of phase one of the M50 upgrade. The cost of compensating NTR will be a matter for determination between NTR and the NRA, in line with the agreement. It provides that the amount payable would be based on actual observed traffic in the 12 months preceding the application of zero tolling with an annual inflation added index. If the toll is removed in 2008, as it is estimated, approximately €45 million per annum indexed would be payable until 2020. Those are the broad figures on the issue.
Deputy Rabbitte asked what is happening now and queried the issue of four tolls. As I understand, there will be one toll on the new road when completed. In the intervening time, the costs of compensating NTR, phase two of the M50 upgrade, upgrading the West Link section of the M50 and of the barrier-free tolling will be met from the total revenue from barrier-free tolling on the M50 up to 2013. That is the basis for the calculations. All the sections Deputy Rabbitte asked about will be paid for out of tolling over a period from 2008 to 2035.
Deputy Rabbitte asked why there is not barrier-free tolling at present. Along with the Tánaiste and several other Ministers, I have had a number of meetings with the engineering people in recent months. They are of the opinion that this would be a disaster. Their view is that it might help a limited amount of traffic going straight but that the tailbacks on all the intersections would make the entire M50 unworkable. Their position is that the first part of the upgrade has commenced, the second part will commence at Easter or in early summer and the third part, which is the West Link part, will commence after that, and all three phases are to be completed within a two-year period.
Six international companies of global scale have tendered for the barrier-free tolling. It is estimated that it will take a year before the work can commence and the technology is set up. It will take two years — I wish it had all been finished five years ago but that is not the position. I reiterate that in two years' time, phase one, which is under way, phase two, which will commence at Easter, phase three, which is the West Link toll and the negotiations with National Toll Roads, and the new system of barrier-free tolling, which is already out to tender with considerable interest from at least six of the international bodies, will be in position.
As Deputy Rabbitte will be aware from the announcement yesterday, the Dublin Port tunnel will open on the morning of 20 December 2006. Restrictions which have been agreed between the traffic engineers and Dublin City Council with regard to certain zones for the five-axle trucks have been approved by the councillors and Dublin City Council.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The only point on which I am clear arising from that reply is that motorists are staring into a Dante's Inferno between now and mid-2008. This is going to be an unmitigated disaster during the refurbishment of the M50. The situation is already intolerable for motorists and what the Taoiseach is now saying is that no remedial action of any kind will be taken. He is sheltering behind the advice of engineers and others who contributed their fair share to the mess in the first place.
If I heard the Taoiseach correctly, all the phases of the refurbishment will be paid for out of the toll by the year 2013.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach said 2013; I wrote it down.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I think I said the second one, 2035.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I have enough difficulty following the Taoiseach.
The Taoiseach did not make any mention of the cost or of the tax treatment. He did not query the DKM figures of €900 million forgone in revenue. He did not query the figure of €600 million reported in The Irish Times this morning.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Rabbitte to speak without interruption.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Is it appropriate, in respect of a distributor road, that a toll will continue to be levied? How does his statement now, that there will be a single toll, fit in with the information that he gave me some months ago about four gantries being erected at four different points of the M50?
Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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That information came from Deputy Rabbitte himself.
11:00 am
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Given that it would cost about one tenth of the cost of the buy-back to build a new bridge, does the Government have any plans or intention to investigate the original 1987 contract which so disadvantaged the State and which has left us with a situation that we cannot even build a bridge? The State cannot even build a new bridge adjacent to the existing bridge because of the contract entered into by Pádraig Flynn, George Redmond and Tom Roche. While two of them are still with us, is it not in the public interest that this contract should be examined? How is it possible to make such a negligent deal on behalf of the taxpayer? We handed everything over to a private operator and the Taoiseach is now telling us he is to make an announcement that he is buying back the bridge. Motorists may think they will get some relief but they will not. There will be no relief until mid-2008 and an alternative toll will then be implemented.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to give way to the Taoiseach.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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There is no technological barrier to implementing barrier free tolling immediately. There was just a reluctance——
Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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What about procurement? The Labour party does not want procurement.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are seven minutes for Leaders' Questions and Deputy Rabbitte has used more than that. I ask him to give way to the Taoiseach. The Chair has allowed more than seven minutes and we cannot continue indefinitely. I ask the Minister to allow Deputy Rabbitte to conclude.
Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps the Labour party has a magic wand.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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If I needed any corroboration of the mess on the M50, I can tell taxpayers that it is in the safe hands of Deputy Cullen.
Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It is not in Deputy Rabbitte's hands anyway.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Taoiseach to respond without interruption.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Money was not growing on trees.
Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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While Deputy Rabbitte was printing money, we were working for it.
Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Minister for Foreign Affairs should tell us about the trees.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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As Deputies are aware, seven minutes are allotted for Leaders' Questions. Deputy Rabbitte has already taken seven and a half minutes and was heard without interruption. The Taoiseach is entitled to reply without interruption and I ask Deputies to respect that.
Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is trying to think of an answer.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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While I gave Deputy Rabbitte a detailed reply, he said that the only clear thing is that there is traffic on the M50. He is right — we all know there is traffic on the M50. I do not want to go into the history of it——
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——but the big issue at the time the M50 was built was whether it would be viable. The country had a population of 3.4 million which was declining. West Dublin had no new development at that time and questions were asked about whether the new motorway would work. In the first six months the concern was that it would be a financial white elephant. The country has moved on and 800,000 new vehicles have come on the road in recent years——
Michael Ahern (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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The population has increased too.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If there are 800,000 additional vehicles and 700,000 more people, a large proportion of them in Dublin, there will inevitably be more traffic.
Deputy Rabbitte asked me what was the position. The issue of four lanes on a gantry was never accepted by the Minister, his Department or the Government. There was one issue, namely that we would move to barrier free tolling. There are no companies in this country who provide barrier free tolling so we have sought them internationally. We have examined the best international standards so we can remove the barriers and adopt modern technology. We have to follow a system of tendering and procurement. I am told it will take well over a year to do this and to put it in place on the M50 will take some further months after that.
The Government and the NRA are committed to improving the level of service provided to motorists on the M50. We feel this will be best achieved through the M50 upgrade and the move to barrier free tolling. A major upgrade programme is under way with a total investment of €1 billion over two years. Phase one has commenced with the upgrade of the sections between the Ballymount and Galway road interchanges, and that is expected to be completed in early 2008. The NRA will submit proposals on barrier free tolling arrangements — toll charges, location and technology — to the Government in due course. Projections and taxation figures will be dealt with by advisors to the NRA, the Department and NTR. The engineers and management of NTR and the managers of the relevant local authorities have told us they believe it will take two years to complete the work.
I am well aware there are difficulties. Deputy Rabbitte will know that my area has had five years of difficulties regarding the completion of the airport road and the Dublin Port tunnel. Motorists have patiently dealt with the disruption. We are spending €1.5 billion on roads, and spent up to €8 billion in recent years. People understand that new bypasses and roads cannot be delivered without disruption——
Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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The Government has not spent that money in the west.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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He would sit down on the road.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will take two years to bring this to completion in the ordered way advised by our best engineers.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The overrun on Leaders' Questions is symptomatic of other overruns. Global warming is an issue regularly raised in the newspapers. The Irish Times today tells us that in 30 years time, losses from droughts, hurricanes and floods could cost up to €800 billion annually. This is a level of impact that I do not think the Taoiseach appreciates. I do not know if the Taoiseach has read the Stern report, which has predicted a loss of 5% of global GDP per annum unless severe cuts in greenhouse gases are agreed and implemented. Otherwise, the economy and the environment will suffer beyond anything we can currently imagine. Already, the World Health Organisation tells us that 150,000 people are dying annually because of climate change.
Kofi Annan has today said that if we cut greenhouse gases the planet can cope. Perhaps that gives the Taoiseach some hope. However, Mr. Annan has also said it will cost less to cut greenhouse gas emissions now than it will to cope with the effect of them in the future. Does the Taoiseach agree? Does he agree we are facing our biggest economic and security challenges? Of course, this is also a massive social, development and human rights issue and poses major problems for biodiversity. It is the biggest challenge the global community has ever faced.
Last March the European commissioner for the environment identified climate change as a greater threat than terrorism. When I asked the Taoiseach about that he helpfully told me he was not responsible for the planet, nor was he responsible for everything that will happen between now and the end of the century. In the meantime, the Taoiseach has signed up to 15%-30% cuts in greenhouse gases for the EU, with the objective of going below 1990 levels by 2020. Those are cuts for the EU as a whole. Will the Taoiseach agree to a minimum 15% cut below 1990 levels by 2020 for Ireland? A "yes" or "no" will suffice.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Decisions on such matters will be based on all the facts and will not be decided by a "yes" or "no" across the floor of this House.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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We have the facts.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government is attending the conference in Nairobi this week and will be articulating Ireland's position. Delegates will continue discussions on a possible agreement to succeed the one made at Kyoto and Ireland will play a full part in that. The key focus is on involving countries that do not currently have emission reduction commitments. While I am optimistic for progress in these discussions, agreement may not be reached at this meeting. We may have to discuss this again in the New Year.
While I did not read the entire Stern report, I read the executive summary and some other sections. His full findings on the economics of climate change will be presented at the conference later this week. We support the key message of his report that there are strong environmental and economic reasons for taking action now. The German NGO Watch published a report at the UN conference yesterday which ranked developed countries according to their progress in reducing greenhouse emissions. Ireland was ranked 33rd of 56, an improvement on last year's ranking of 39th. We have been proactive and successful in addressing national greenhouse gas emissions and we continue to be so. We have decoupled our economic growth from increases in emissions during the 15 year period between 1990 and 2004. During this time our emissions grew by 23% while our economy grew by 150%. We will reduce our emissions by 11 million tonnes per annum through measures already in place including 3 million tonnes from power plants and large industry through the EU emissions trading scheme. We are committed to and supportive of the EU emissions trading scheme. Over 100 Irish installations are participating in that. The strength of the economy is placing upward pressure on emissions and further measures will be put in place to address the situation. We intend to put in place further emissions, but that will be based not on my giving figures from the top of my head but on figures provided by competent people.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Does the Taoiseach mean emission targets?
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Can I presume the Taoiseach made a mistake when he said he wants to put more emissions in place? Would the Taoiseach agree that boasting we have improved from 39th position to 33rd is like boasting that Ireland will beat San Marino in tonight's soccer match? Has the Taoiseach any ambition for this country in terms of its responsibilities and the weight of responsibility on this and future generations and the economy, which stands to suffer from inaction in this area? The Taoiseach says he has read the executive summary of the Stern review. It bears a number of readings and perhaps he will get the opportunity to read the entire document. As a wealthy country, Ireland has a responsibility to give leadership in this. Our Government plans a stealth tax to pay our way out of Kyoto rather than making the necessary cuts. This issue must be highlighted and the Taoiseach needs to respond to it. The Taoiseach will stand over a weekly charge of between €2 million and €4 million on the Irish taxpayer as a result of failure to have proper building standards and harnessing of renewable energy, failure to provide proper public transport, while the Taoiseach has spoken about another 800,000 vehicles, and failure to have proper planning to reduce commuting. The taxpayer has a bill of approximately €1 billion over five years for Kyoto. That money could be spent in any number of areas including proper nursing homes, schools and hospitals. How can the Taoiseach justify that?
Today's speech by the Queen of England in the British Parliament has announced the introduction of a climate change Bill, a carbon committee and targets to cut carbon dioxide emissions by 60% by 2050. This is supported by the Confederation of British Industry, as announced by Mr. Richard Lambert speaking on the radio this morning. Will the Taoiseach introduce those measures? Will he introduce a climate targets Bill that will allow us to get to grips with what we need to do in this area, yes or no?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have already stated to the Deputy, today and a number of times, that we will introduce a carbon Bill.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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A year after the budget.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have already stated that over the last number of years our national emissions have risen and that we must do more. The Minister has said several times that the downward trend cannot be maintained through existing policies so we must do more and there is no issue about that. Our experts have been working under the national climate change strategy to see what more we need to do than what we have done.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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May I answer? Why does the Deputy interrupt?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach is competent to deal with the question and does not need Deputy Eamon Ryan's help.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We will reduce our emissions by 11 million tonnes per annum through measures already in place and I have stated that this includes 3 million tonnes from power plants and large industry, and that this is not enough. Our economy has grown by 150% while our emissions grew by 23 %, but it is not enough. We have examined a range of measures and we will study the Stern report. As the full report is not out yet, nobody has read it.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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It is available on line.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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To keep the Deputy informed, the full report is not to be published until January.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The hard copy is not out until January.
Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is mixing it up with the Queen's speech.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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The Minister of State should be interested in this subject.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The carbon Bill is being prepared and we will, based on what happens in Nairobi and on discussions at EU level, return to this issue.
Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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There are no targets then.