Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Question 7: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the number of elderly people and people in receipt of social welfare estimated to be living in homes with above average levels of radon; if he will reconsider his refusal to introduce a scheme of grants to assist in remediation works to the homes of elderly people and those in receipt of social welfare; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36775/06]

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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During the 1990s, the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland carried out a nationwide survey of radon gas in domestic dwellings. The survey involved the measurement of radon in approximately 11,000 houses nationwide. Based on the results of this survey, the RPII estimated that approximately 7% of the national housing stock, 91,000 houses, have radon concentration levels in excess of the national reference level of 200 bq/m3. This is the reference level adopted by Government for houses and is the level above which it is recommended that radon remediation works should be considered.

The RPII survey is the only one of its kind to have taken place in the country. The nature of the survey does not make it possible to estimate the number of occupants and their age cohort. As stated in reply to previous questions, increasing public awareness of radon is considered to be a more effective approach than the provision of State financial assistance to householders for radon testing of their homes or for radon remediation works. Such schemes are not operated by the majority of EU member states and could require very significant public expenditure and administrative resources.

The testing of houses for radon is a relatively straightforward, non-invasive and inexpensive process, costing about €50 per house. Furthermore, in many cases, relatively straightforward and inexpensive remediation measures, such as improved ventilation, can be effective in reducing radon concentration levels.

The Government, through the RPII, has, for many years, committed significant resources to assessing the extent of the radon problem throughout the country and to highlighting public awareness of radon and the risks associated with it. In this connection, I refer to the reply to Question No. 607 of 1 November 2006 in which I outlined the numerous initiatives undertaken by the RPII and my Department.

As part of the audit of the condition of the local authority housing stock, which is due to commence next year, I intend that appropriate arrangements will be made to survey the radon concentration levels in those houses. As part of their duties the landlord councils will be expected to take the necessary remedial steps.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for his reply. The contradictory advice coming from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government never ceases to amaze me. One section of the Department advises householders to insulate their houses to keep the heat in and the Minister has told us to open the windows to let the radon gas out.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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It is not quite the same thing.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I am not sure which advice one should take. Is it better to be warm and dead or cold and alive? Some 91,000 homes have death-dealing levels of radon gas. Some 300 people die from the effects of radon gas, based on the RPII figures. I was involved directly with that agency in the first stages of having the surveys carried out and the Minister's constituency colleague, Deputy Jacob, completed the job. I am sure the Minister will be aware that the former Labour and Fianna Fáil Government decided on the advice of the RPII that a remediation grant scheme should be introduced, but the Minister has turned his face against that and has taken some new advice. He should consider some special cases. He has said he will consider council houses, which is a welcome positive step. I ask the Minister to consider those who cannot afford to carry out the remediation works, including old age pensioners and those on social welfare. We should at least have a limited scheme for those who cannot afford to carry out the works themselves. The alternative is literally to condemn these people to death in houses with high levels of radon gas. The test could be carried out before awarding the grant to ensure it is needed.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Ventilation does not simply mean leaving windows and doors open.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The last Minister told people to open their windows.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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While I appreciate the humour, it is not necessarily counter to the advice on insulation. We will leave that to one side.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Perhaps the Minister will remove that advice for future reference.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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To the extent that anybody advises people to leave their windows or doors open, I will remove that advice. Discussion on the introduction of a radon gas remedial works grant scheme took place in 1997 and I believe it was announced that such a scheme would be introduced. Again, it was to be subject to moneys being found in the then relevant Departments and as the Deputy knows, that did not happen. The issue was reviewed in 2001, as the Deputy mentioned.

The response of other countries to this issue has been, to put it mildly, chequered. The funding is much better spent in advising people to have their homes tested because the changes that are needed are relatively small and inexpensive.

On a previous occasion the Deputy has mentioned people in social housing and the responsibilities of councils. That point is well made and it is the reason I am incorporating that in the review. A cost benefit analysis was commissioned by the Danish Government some years ago of existing houses in Denmark by way of a scheme to grant assistance. It concluded that such investment would not be justified and that the alternative means of reducing the number of lung cancer deaths, which is the key statistic, reducing smoking, was much better. I do not like using the term "cost benefit analysis" when talking about human life but that is the way the analysis on those particular schemes tends to be conducted. The Deputy can be assured there will not be contradictory advice on this matter.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Will the Minister not agree it is extraordinary that the number of people dying from the effects of radon gas is almost the same as the number killed on our roads? We spend huge amounts of money, energy, time and public attention on deaths on our roads and ignore the fact that 300 people die from something that is unnecessary and avoidable. Those deaths could be avoided for very little cost.

I welcome the fact the Minister is including social housing in a programme of retrofitting. Will he look again at the works that are done because the Radiological Protection Institute of Ireland has found that some of the new houses that were supposed to be fitted with radon gas exclusion measures are allowing the gas into houses because they were not fitted properly? Even where houses were retrofitted some houses were still found to have gas levels. Obviously the methods used are not as effective as the RPII hoped or perhaps they are not being fitted as well as the RPII hoped. If there was some type of an examination at the fitting stage to that particular part of the house, whether retrofitted or otherwise, it would be of benefit. If a grant scheme was in place it would provide an opportunity to examine the fitting of these measures by the State in the interests of the citizens.

In reviewing the matter, will the Minister examine the situation of people outside the social housing arena who are not in a position to spend €10,000 or €12,000 to have the house retrofitted where they can demonstrate there is a case for some assistance either through the health board or some other system?

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I will think about the Deputy's last point, although I am not making a promise on it. I am aware this is an issue in which he has taken a particular interest.

The other point the Deputy made is good. Part C of the Building Regulations 1997 and the technical guidance document provide the basis on which buildings should be dealt with. We do not have statistics on it but the Deputy may have anecdotal evidence that I have heard as well——

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The RPII gave it to us at a committee meeting.

Dick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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I was aware of that but there were cases where, for example, membranes were put down in a careless way. That defeats the entire purpose and to the extent that is happening, it must be stopped. I thank the Deputy for his contribution.