Dáil debates

Wednesday, 8 November 2006

10:30 am

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I want to ask the Minister for Finance about traffic congestion every morning in Dublin, particularly on the M50, and to refer to a number of related matters. Yesterday I met a family by the name of Price in Lucan and they are typical of 100,000 families caught in this bind. The Taoiseach, speaking at the Ard-Fheis last weekend, made the point that people should imagine the changes that are yet to come in transport. I know that the Government cannot wave a magic wand and sort all this out overnight, but the Price family are commuters — commuting generally means movement — and in their case it takes between 25 and 47 minutes to get their three-year old to a crèche and a similar time to get from there back on to the main route into Dublin.

The M50 roundabout is a major contributory factor to rising stress levels, lack of productivity and consternation among hundreds of thousands of commuters, including those coming into the city from outside the greater Dublin area. The Price family is no exception to this. Having spent two hours out there and having seen at first hand the chaos and confusion, one can understand that a great number of people in Lucan and in the vicinity of the Ballyowen roundabout have lost a sense of hope that anybody can do anything about this.

I put forward a number of practical suggestions that could relieve some of that congestion and ease the movement of traffic in the short term. For instance, the Government is discussing with National Toll Roads the question of raising the toll barriers and the Government will decide on that matter, but surely a mechanism should be put in place so that when traffic backs up as far as the bridge, an arrangement would be made for the toll barriers to be lifted, which would ease the congestion in getting on to the M50 in the first place. It is obvious that when school term begins, up to 40,000 extra car journeys are made by parents delivering children to and from school. Perhaps in that area a specific facility for specialist school bus runs would be helpful in relieving that pressure and congestion. Will the Minister consider that those two suggestions are practical and implementable? I have a few more besides for him.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There are two aspects to this. Obviously, the Minister, the NRA, the traffic authorities concerned and the Garda look at any possible practical short-term measures that are realistic and viable. We all recognise that there is a particular problem but, unfortunately, when problems are highlighted people then suggest that no progress is being made on any front. As Deputy Kenny will be aware, there is a major investment plan for the upgrading of the M50, which the Minister for Transport is pursuing with the NRA, and we have seen such works being carried out successfully on other major routes such as the Naas Road.

While it is not for me to decry any suggestion that may come from anybody who is dealing with these matters — I am sure they can be looked at in a practical way by the authorities concerned — a genuine priority is being accorded to a major investment to increase capacity there. The suggestion that lifting barriers would deal with existing capacity rather than attract further capacity and cause further gridlock is another issue to which traffic management experts refer. There is no simple obvious solution to this problem. Changing the interchanges, widening the motorway and providing more capacity is the genuine solution and of course that takes time. In the meantime anything that can be done to alleviate what I acknowledge is a difficult situation can be considered.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not here to decry all the ongoing efforts. The Price family, for instance, as one of 100,000 families in that area, make the point that each week Catherine Price spends two and a half working days in her car and her husband spends another working day in his car. Three and a half days over 100,000 families equates to approximately €3 billion in terms of lost productivity, pressure on time etc.

By the end of this year the Government will have spent €173 million on quality bus corridors, but between 2000 and 2006 Dublin Bus was not given any additional buses. That is obviously a matter that should be dealt with. Having spoken to the drivers of Dublin Bus and of Morton's private buses, neither company has been able to get on to the quality bus corridor in that area. Commuters are being cheated on both fronts. If they take public or private licensed transport, they still cannot make any movement to get out on to the main road.

Will the Minister for Finance consider that immediate implementation of Operation Freeflow would be of assistance? Having gardaí at every relevant junction to keep traffic moving is important. The M50 is being upgraded but it will not be finished until 2011. When the Dublin Port tunnel opens it is expected that between 4,000 and 6,000 trucks will emerge on the platform to get on to the M50. With the work at the new terminal, this will obviously cause further congestion in that area.

Perhaps the following would be helpful. Immediate implementation of Operation Freeflow, allowing an extra 100 private licensed bus operators, another 100 buses in addition to those which have been spoken about by Government, and the immediate establishment of a Dublin transport authority for licensing so that people who want to use public transport or private licensed transport will have that facility. Having spoken to people at first hand, they will avail of such transport. The endless frustration and consternation experienced by so many people who just sit in their cars every morning and evening is unnecessary when in the immediate term the Government can take action which would result in an improvement in the situation.

I realise the Government is providing money for longer-term projects, but these will not bring results over night. The Government could implement five or six proposals immediately to ease this pressure and I recommend strongly that it does so.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Operation Freeflow is being co-ordinated currently and preparations are ongoing. It will come on stream in the usual way. The question of how it can be prolonged beyond the normal Christmas period is an issue for the Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Transport to consider.

The bus fleet has increased significantly. It is incorrect to say capacity has not increased in 2006. Almost 1,000 bigger and better buses have been brought into service since 1997 and the bus fleet is much more modern, efficient and effective. Capacity has increased by 40% in that time and, therefore, there has been a substantial renewal and increase in line with commitments under the national development plan. The subvention provided to Bus Átha Cliath has also increased significantly from €8.8 million to €70 million annually, which reflects increased capital investment and capacity. Under Transport 21, the Government has made a serious commitment to public transport as the best way to deal with the situation. An investment of up to €500 million is being contemplated in the bus fleet, quite apart from the major extensions of the Luas and the metro, which have proceeded to planning. The question of investment in public transport being a key to relieving the long-term problem is acknowledged in Transport 21. It is a central part of the investment framework going forward.

With regard to the more immediate issue, Operation Freeflow is being co-ordinated and preparations are concluding so that it can be undertaken in the normal way.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I would like to ask the Minister for Finance about the electoral register mess. Will he take a personal interest in the situation that has been created? Some 600,000 names were removed from the register but the problem is they are not the correct names. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, who is responsible for the register, describes these as "inadvertent deletions". An estimated 20% of people on the register should not be on it but, instead, the wrong names have been deleted. When The Sunday Tribune, in particular, brought this matter to public attention, we asked the Government to use the census process so enumerators would give citizens an electoral register form as well to be collected when they returned for the census form but that was ignored. We sought amending legislation to permit compliance with the Data Protection Commissioner's view that access to the information stored by utility companies and others should be facilitated but the Minister also pooh-poohed that. We are back to "inadvertent deletions" and the attitude is to blame county councils and the citizen. However, it is the Government's task to maintain the electoral register. Credit companies have more reliable quality data than the register.

I suggest a few measures the Government might take urgently. The first is to extend the deadline to register beyond 25 November. It is not possible to deal with the scale of inaccuracy between now and 25 November.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The deadline should be extended so that initiatives can be taken to at least correct some of the damage. A massive advertising and public awareness campaign is needed and the leaders of political parties need to make a joint appeal to the public in respect of the state of the register. Additional resources should be provided to local authorities to validate the job that requires to be done. A helpline, with in-built verification, is needed for those who cannot go on-line to correct inaccuracies. Anyone whose name has been deleted from the register ought to be notified in writing that he or she has been removed and to tell him or her what he or she can do about it. The procedures for getting on the supplementary register ought to be made more amenable——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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——because the only route available to people to get on it is to attend their local Garda station and, in many cases, they will not do that. The practice varies throughout the country but, in some parts, people will simply not do that. That process must be simplified. Measures can still be taken at this stage. The issue needs to be addressed urgently because remarks such as "Sure, only 70% of the people would vote on the best day" is not the way to approach this issue.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to give way to the Minister.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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This is a cornerstone of the basis on which we should conduct elections.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We all take this matter seriously. It is not a question of being blasé about it. We are all aware of the serious problems there were with the accuracy of the register and that has been a feature of the register for a long number of years. This has been exacerbated by population mobility with hundreds of thousands of people changing their addresses every year. For example, 90,000 new homes were built last year while thousands of other houses changed hands. Councils have been slow to remove people from the register. Names have always been added to the register without the concomitant obligation to delete names. Failure to remove names on death or to reflect family breakdown and ownership of second homes has complicated what was never a simple issue in the first place.

Arising from the concern expressed on all sides of the House, the Government instigated a comprehensive and thorough review. Local authorities completed field work for the most extensive and equitable registration campaign in decades. A total of 1,500 field workers called on 1.25 million households while extensive publicity campaigns were undertaken. Suggestions in the media that the draft register would still contain more than 500,000 names that should not be included may have arisen because of the failure to take into account the 8% increase in population when one compares the 2002 census result with the 2007-08 register. The newspaper did not take that factor into account and, therefore, the difference may not be as great as suggested. However, whether it is or not, between now and 25 November, we must examine what way political parties and activists can help to make sure voters are registered. A great deal of activity is going on in that regard.

Thankfully, the supplementary register system, to which the Deputy referred, is much more flexible.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It is not flexible.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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That is not true.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Minister to continue without interruption.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is true. Deputy Rabbitte asked the question——

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It might be working in Laoighis-Offaly but it is not in Dublin West.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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It is not true.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Minister to continue without interruption. The Deputy's party leader had four and a half minutes to speak when he should have had only two. The Deputies should not take the Minister's time.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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One could not get on the supplementary register previously when the deadline passed but once 25 November has passed, it will still be possible to get on the register up to 15 days before the next election. It is not the case that if a person has failed to register by 25 November, he or she will be deprived of a vote and we should not send that message to the public. A supplementary register system is in place, which is designed to make sure we do not end up in the position that pertained in the old days where, once the white register was published in January or February, that was it. It is right that there are more flexible arrangements in place for the infirm and the disabled to send postal votes.

We must continue to promote the idea of people taking on their obligations and ensuring that they are on the register. We will do everything we can through available systems. In recent years, the registration of voters has been reformed and the supplementary register system has provided us with a continuous avenue to make the system more accurate than previously. We want to make it absolutely accurate.

Inaction in this area was not an option. People spoke about widespread prospects for fraud, impersonation and so on, an experience in parts of urban Ireland at the last election.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about rural Ireland?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We have responded with the most comprehensive review of the register in years. We must continue to work on this matter beyond 25 November and I am sure the Minister will do whatever work he can in this regard.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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With respect, the Minister is winging it. I know what the problems are, but what will the Government do to address them? There is no point telling the House that in the old days, there was no supplementary register. The Minister is certainly referring to the old days because there has been a supplementary register for as long as I can remember. There is no point telling people in many parts of the country that they must go to their local Garda stations because the stations in many villages have been closed and urban voters will not queue at Garda stations to check their names or be put on the supplementary register.

Like every Deputy, I have received dozens of telephone calls, e-mails and so on concerning this matter. This morning, one of my colleagues in the House contacted me to say that he has been removed from the register. We have been given all kinds of explanations as to why people who take their voting responsibilities seriously have been removed.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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That is ordinary in Dublin North-Central.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister is correct because that type of person will take action to put the situation right, but the great majority of those who have been inadvertently deleted, as the Minister put it, will not put it right and there will be a great deal of anger on polling day when they find that they have been removed from the register.

Third World countries invite the United Nations to verify that their voting systems are fair, but we are boasting about how wealthy our nation is when we cannot compile the basic electoral register accurately. Some banks, finance houses and credit companies have records of the citizenry that are more accurate than the electoral register.

Photo of Michael AhernMichael Ahern (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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They get the information from the local authorities.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time has concluded.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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When we paid rates, there was no difficulty in keeping the register accurate and up to date. Respectfully, I made seven points about what the Government might do. Unless the Minister's party has a system that is unavailable to the rest of us, which I am sure is not the case, this is a democratic question for our democracy. The Minister does not seem to take on board the point that the Government must first extend the 25 November deadline.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time has concluded. He has gone long over time.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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If local authorities require more resources, those resources should be made available. The Government should extend the 25 November deadline because, after that date, one cannot cause one's name to be put on the register until the final register is produced in February, at which time one must go through the rigorous process of attending a Garda station and so on. This is not a satisfactory situation.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to give way to the Minister.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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There is a compelling argument to remove the matter from the aegis of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and local authorities——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has spoken for all of the seven minutes allotted to this question and I ask that he give way for the Minister to respond.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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——and to set up an electoral commission to address the issue. In terms of the immediate situation with which we are confronted, I ask the Minister to address seriously the seven points I raised.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Many additions and deletions have occurred as a result of extensive field work. In a number of local authorities, there is a strong correlation between that work and the 2006 census, which estimated how many people at or above 18 years of age will be on the register in 2007 and 2008. For example, the figure is 100% in Dún Laoghaire, 101% in County Laois, 99% in north County Tipperary and 100% in south County Tipperary. There is a strong correlation between the registration pattern and the 2006 census, not the 2002 census.

Registering every adult will always be difficult, particularly in major urban areas. For example, the figures for Cork and Dublin are 88% and 80%, respectively. People have the opportunity to get on the register before the election and we will continue to help in whatever way we can. If there is excess registration in areas after the local authorities' work has been completed, it will reflect the long-standing bias in the system towards putting people on the register and ensuring that their rights to vote are maintained. Much work has been done to remove people who have died or moved away from the register and we must take account of the significant population movement in recent years.

The Deputy may wish to table parliamentary questions to the relevant Minister regarding his specific requests, but I do not know whether any of the options is possible and I do not want to say. Much work has been done and many resources have been devoted to what has been the most comprehensive review ever. Some people make points about issues in certain areas, but it is a matter for us all to ensure that the register in those areas is as accurate as possible in the time available, which is not limited to 25 November. I cannot tell the Deputy much more beyond the fact that this campaign has had a view to making the register more accurate. We must recognise that we are moving from a standing position of an inaccurate register.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Government has not solved the problem.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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It is solved.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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By reference to where the register was, it does not——

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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If the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government checks his local authority, he will see how far off he is.

Photo of Tom KittTom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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The figure is at least 101%.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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County Wicklow does not have a proper register.

Photo of Dick RocheDick Roche (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Tens of thousands of people have been dealt with.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Minister has disenfranchised his own voters.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Joe Higgins to speak without interruption.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I hope that he gets his full time.

11:00 am

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will the Government draw meaningful conclusions from the drubbing received by American President George Bush and his party in the mid-term elections, which was, above all, a rejection by swelling numbers of ordinary Americans of the unspeakable barbarities unleashed on the Iraqi people by the imperialist invasion of their country? Hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, men, women and children, have been slaughtered and maimed and millions have been terrified as a result of the actions of the forces that went there allegedly to liberate them. Let us not forget the thousands of American soldiers, working class youths in uniform, who have also been slaughtered.

In January 2003, two months before the invasion, the Independent Deputies and this Socialist Party Deputy moved a Private Members' motion pointing to the catastrophe that would result from the then imminent invasion of Iraq. The then Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Cowen, answered our motion on behalf of the Government. The Taoiseach and the Government gave credence at all times to the monstrous lies of Bush and Blair that their invasion was about removing weapons of mass destruction and peace when we said it was to remove oil resources and secure imperialist domination of the Middle East.

The Minister made crucial facilities available to the US war machine at Shannon Airport and continues to do so. On an annual basis, 250,000 American soldiers are facilitated at Shannon in pursuance of the occupation of Iraq. He dismissed with contempt 100,000 people who marched in Dublin on 15 February 2003 and defied with contempt the views of the majority of the Irish people who opposed the invasion and the use of Shannon Airport by the US military.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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He allowed the commander-in-chief, President Bush, to parade in Shannon with his troops. Now that the American people have rejected the bloody carnage that Mr. Bush and his neo-conservative cabal have inflicted on the people of Iraq, will the Irish Government implement the wish of the Irish people and withdraw forthwith its facilitation of, and de facto support for, the Bush war machine at Shannon Airport?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The only conclusion I can draw at the moment is that they only elected one socialist Deputy. A Government motion was debated in this Chamber and passed, defeating Deputy Joe Higgins's motion. The decisions made and explained by Government at the time, which were consistent with our foreign policy traditions, were approved of in this House. It is not the work of a cabal but a democratic decision of this assembly.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Not in our name.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Answer the question. The Minister's reply was a fudge.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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I am speechless.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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That does not happen very often.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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That is a contemptible response——

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Joe Higgins is the only one exercising contempt.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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——from an Irish Government when the entire world is today talking about the profound meaning of the outcome of the mid-term elections in the United States. The Democratic Party is not a radical, revolutionary or socialist alternative to the Republican Party but that is not the point. The point is that the vote amounts to a massive rejection of the atrocities that the Bush regime has inflicted on the people of Iraq——

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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——facilitated by the Government of which Mr. Cowen is a Minister. If he was convinced that the support he continues to give to American troops was right he would speak for more than ten seconds to explain to the Irish people why he defies their wishes.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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This morning innocent Palestinian people were massacred in the village of Beit Hanoun by the Israeli defence forces, carrying all the hallmarks of the Rumsfeld-Bush shock and awe tactics. It was a further devastation of the peoples of the Middle East as a result of their interference, which has been supported at all stages by the Minister.

Does the Minister agree with the majority of the American people now that the invasion and ongoing occupation of Iraq are a disaster? Does he regret the role the Irish Government has played and is playing in facilitating the ongoing occupation? Does he apologise for his role?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time is concluded.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will he continue with the same subservient policy to the Bush and Blair regimes in support of their agenda, which has nothing to do with world peace or the welfare of the peoples of the Middle East? We should not be surprised he supports them when the Government follows their neo-liberal capitalist policies such as privatising our public industries. The Minister must do better and show respect to the Irish people by answering the crucial questions raised by the outcome of this election in the United States.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have no respect for the Deputy's anti-Americanism. I never have and never will.

Photo of Michael D HigginsMichael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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It is not anti-Americanism any more.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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That is another easy diversion. What does he mean by anti-Americanism? Do I hate the Rocky Mountains? Do I hate the Great Lakes?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Joe Higgins has had his opportunity. I ask him to allow the Minister to respond.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I refer to the Deputy's vituperative approach, which is entirely predictable.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The Minister shows the Irish people contempt.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Joe Higgins to resume his seat.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Irish Government continues to support UN resolutions on these matters, which were unanimously adopted. In the debate to which the Deputy referred, the Irish Government set out its position and I stand over every word of it because it was consistent with our foreign policy traditions, despite Deputy Joe Higgins's assertions to the contrary. I do not agree with anything else the Deputy has to say on the subject and never will. We will just have to disagree.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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What is the Minister's interpretation of the American election result?

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Minister should withdraw his remark about anti-Americanism.