Dáil debates

Wednesday, 5 July 2006

Ceisteanna — Questions.

National Security Provisions.

11:00 am

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach when the last meeting of the high level group monitoring the threat of terrorism took place; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23769/06]

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Having regard to the security nature of the work of the national security committee, it would not be appropriate to disclose information about the dates of individual meetings or its proceedings. I can confirm that the committee met within the past month.

The committee is chaired by the Secretary General to the Government and comprises representatives at the highest level of the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Defence, Foreign Affairs, the Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces. It ensures the Government and I are advised of high level security issues and the responses to them, but not operational security issues.

The committee meets as required and will continue to do so. In addition to their meetings, the members liaise on an ongoing basis to monitor developments which might have national security implications, in particular in the international arena.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

With reference to an issue I have raised before, several bodies are involved in planning for national emergencies, such as this high level task force and the group chaired by the Minister, Deputy O'Dea. Will the Taoiseach agree we would be better served to have just one co-ordinating body? It seems there are too many people responsible and it is difficult to see the crossover between them. An international body has recommended the setting up of a single group underpinned by legislation.

My second question refers to the hoax bomb scare at Dublin Airport yesterday. Had this committee any role to play in dealing with this incident? Has the Taoiseach received a report on the incident? Were proper procedures followed? Is the Government satisfied the procedures in place are adequate to deal with such a situation?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In answer to the Deputy's first question, this issue was examined. The Deputy is correct that following the events of 11 September 2001, the office of emergency planning was set up to co-ordinate the work of the various emergency services in preparing contingency plans. The task force on emergency planning, chaired by the Minister for Defence, meets frequently to assist in that role. It was suggested there be one unit but the Minister for Defence, through the office of emergency planning and the task force on emergency planning oversee the general area of emergency planning in order to promote the best possible use of State resources and to ensure compatibility between the different emergency planning requirements. The possibility of amalgamating responsibility for managing emergencies in a single agency was raised in the report of the Emergency Planning Society. As I stated previously, substantial costs would be associated with its suggested approach. Its responses to different types of emergency require different skills, experience and resources. It has been pointed out that dealing with a maritime oil pollution incident is different from reacting to a foot and mouth threat. For this reason, primary responsibility remains with the agency with the relevant expertise and knowledge.

The office of emergency planning has been established on an administrative basis. It is appropriate from time to time to consider whether the work of the office needs to be supported by a statutory framework relating to emergency planning. The Government will consider any detailed proposals which the Minister in the light of experience may wish to bring in this regard. A consolidation of services would cause a large duplication of services into a single unit and the expertise might not be used that much. During the foot and mouth crisis, we were able to call on expertise from the veterinary college and the Department of Agriculture and Food and personnel from the marine institute can be called upon in the event of a marine issue. It would be a costly exercise to bring everyone into one unit and it is considered unnecessary.

The other issue raised by the Deputy is not related to the work of this committee. The airport police and the Garda Síochána co-ordinated yesterday's response to the incident in Dublin Airport. The Garda sought the assistance of the explosive ordnance disposal unit which arrived on site yesterday afternoon. The Dublin Airport Authority contingency plans for evacuation worked smoothly. It was necessary to evacuate the airport because the individual not alone threatened to throw a bomb but he also stated he had placed another bomb. The disruptive procedure was therefore necessary for the protection of the staff and the travelling public. The Garda Síochána and the explosives ordnance disposal unit were on hand quickly to assist.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I refer to a statement by the head of anti-terrorist operations in Scotland Yard, Mr. Peter Clarke. He stated he is very concerned in the approach to the anniversary of the London bombings of 7 July last year. Has there been any contact with Scotland Yard by the Garda Síochána or the high level group on the possibility of any heightened threat to this country?

Has the high level group been asked to consider the visit of HMS Ocean, the very large British warship involved in the invasion of Iraq? Was the high level group involved in the decision to create an air exclusion zone around that ship?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy is moving outside the scope of the question.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The work of the high level group monitoring the threat of terrorism is fundamental to my question.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The question only relates to its last meeting and not to any details of what the group might or might not have discussed.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

To make the question any use at all, I ask——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is the problem with these types of questions, which ask for the date on which there was a meeting.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There is hardly any point in coming in here if that is the only reason to ask a question.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The substance of this question cannot be widened beyond what is asked.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will leave it at that. I know this ship was brought in to promote beer, but with regard to the cost to the Irish taxpayer of preventing terrorism——

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I ask the Deputy to allow the Taoiseach to answer.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Does the Taoiseach have anything to say on the role of the high level group with regard to anti-terrorist operations when it is presented with such an obvious provocation or draw to terrorists?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I ask the Deputy to give way to the Taoiseach.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

When any of these ships come in, the Garda and the Defence Forces are consulted and they express their concerns. As far as the high level group is concerned, a number of Deputies here — including Deputies Kenny and Rabbitte — know that it is better if we do not get into the issues in security briefings. There are always highly sensitive issues, and there is ongoing work and co-operation. It is happening every day across a range of areas.

Anything I might say would be unhelpful to the operations, although I am briefed on them from time to time. It is not that often, but it happens when there is a requirement. Senior people are involved in these issues, which take in security, intelligence and co-operation. There is a level of co-operation across frontiers, including Scotland Yard, Europol and Eurojust. There is co-operation with the United States on issues such as narcotics and arms.

It is an everyday issue, and Deputies can take it as such. There would be nothing helpful in me discussing these issues, other than to tell Deputies how the process works.

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Taoiseach's statement today was not very helpful either.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Have we ever had any simulated exercises in dealing with an emergency? These issues can be tested in theory but processes will only be put in practice if, unfortunately, an incident occurs. The best way to deal with this is to have a trial exercise.

When was the national emergency plan for nuclear accidents, NEPNA, last updated? A previous Minister of State, Deputy Jacob, sent around iodine tablets, which are now long out of date. Is there a proposal for a substitute?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy has gone well outside the scope of the question.

Photo of Fergus O'DowdFergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We will read the Fianna Fáil manifesto.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The issue arises in the event of an emergency following a possible terrorist attack on Sellafield.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I appreciate that but I have ruled on this for Deputy Sargent.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That was the reason the tablets were circulated in the first place.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Stocks are available to the best of my knowledge. The national emergency plan for nuclear accidents is evolving, and it is also on an international level.

The Deputy's first question was on simulated emergency exercises. There has been a number of these. I know that some at sea have been done this summer, and a very big one has been carried out in Dublin Airport. That was a simulation of a major crash, and all services were used. It took several hours in late spring. The exercises continue so that we can consider response times and difficulties that might arise.

There are approximately three exercises a year. Huge effort is put into them. There is now a dedicated staff working to determine responses and consider what happens with services in action. They report on what occurs and relevant organisations are engaged with on any difficulties which arise. A core group works on this service the whole time.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Has the high level group addressed the issue of the use of Shannon Airport by US forces? Has it addressed the Council of Europe report on this Government's complicity in facilitating so-called extraordinary rendition of prisoners?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The group does not deal with such matters. Line Ministers deal with that. Our policy is that we are totally opposed to rendition of prisoners.