Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 70: To ask the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources if he will bring forward measures to establish a consumer panel or a mechanism within CER to strengthen the representation within the regulatory body of the interests of consumers and businesses; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20860/06]

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Under EU regulations on the internal energy markets the Commission for Energy Regulation — CER — has a direct legal obligation in relation to electricity and gas consumers. These include the requirement to protect the interests of final customers and to take account of the needs of vulnerable customers. The regulator is also required to ensure that all customers are supplied with electricity and gas of a specified quality at reasonable prices.

I welcome the stronger focus on consumer protection as part of the move to liberalised markets. The interests of customers are now better safeguarded within the regulatory regime. In carrying out this function the CER regularly engages with customers and customer representative organisations.

The CER had intended to develop specific consumer panels for the gas and electricity sectors. This proposal has been superseded by the establishment of the National Consumer Agency — NCA — by my colleague, the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment. The agency's remit is to represent and progress consumers' interests across all economic sectors. It is also envisaged the agency will provide a strong consumer voice in the regulated sectors including energy.

The CER is working closely with the NCA to set up appropriate arrangements including a memorandum of understanding on information sharing and consultation and co-operation. The CER is also establishing a dedicated consumer complaint handling team which will handle all complaints about energy suppliers. The CER is also working to ensure that those licensed suppliers which supply domestic customers develop and comply with a customer charter. These are positive steps forward in the interests of energy consumers and I commend the CER and the NCA for their collaboration to date.

As we move towards the establishment of the single all-island electricity market next year, CER and the Northern Ireland regulator are working closely together to ensure the optimum market arrangements are in place to the benefit of consumers, North and South.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is it not a fact that householders, citizens and businesses are waiting with trepidation to see what energy — electricity and gas — price rises will occur this year, with the gas industry obviously looking for a 40% price rise and the electricity industry looking for increases? Given that over the past four or five years there have been increases of the order of 60%, prices will have more than doubled in their period in Government. Is not the net result of this that businesses are threatened with inefficiency and householders, particularly in the case of senior citizens, end up being vulnerable, living in cold homes? The Minister will have noted the recent UCD study, for example, which showed that almost 20% of Irish households were considered not to have sufficient heat because often people felt they could not afford to turn it on. This results in senior citizens going around their homes in overcoats.

Would the Minister agree there is a serious problem and his answer is too blasé? Will he issue a directive to CER? Will he amend his Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2006 to allow for a statutorily based consumer panel within CER representing householders and business? Will he agree this is what is needed?

For example, each of the British regulators, Ofgem, Ofcom and PostCom, has a strong consumer lobby which does its best for consumers. Will the Minister agree he has failed Irish consumers? Will he agree it is shameful for the Government that last year's UCD study on household heating showed that up to 650 elderly people may have died because of cold because of the Government's failure to bring forward stronger measures to protect them?

Has the Minister spoken to the Minister for Finance about excise, VAT and indirect taxation on electricity, gas and oil? Is he undertaking any such discussions in the context of the final budget of this Government? Many citizens feel there should be intense discussions about how to hold the price of energy in this difficult time.

Has the Minister spoken to his United Kingdom counterpart on the problem with wholesale gas prices in the UK? Given the Irish gas market is effectively part of the UK gas market, is the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, having any input into it? Has there been any talk about the problems the UK has experienced with its gas market?

Does the Minister accept the view of distinguished economists such as Paul Hunt that there is an element of gold-plating in the gas network roll out and, indeed, possibly even in electricity roll outs, and that this is an area in which the Minister should take a pro-active role?

The Minister will probably agree that last winter was one of the coldest in our lifetime. For the sake of vulnerable households such as the elderly, would the Minister agree it is time he took a vigorous role on behalf of citizens, householders and businesses in energy pricing? It is not good enough to merely take a blasé, almost bystander, approach which is so characteristic of the Taoiseach and which the Minister is now adopting.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not believe in taking a Don Quixote role either——

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is better again.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——where one tilts at windmills as the Deputy is doing. The Deputy can make all the rhetorical speeches he likes about gas, electricity and oil prices. It does not matter how many Labour Party Members are on this side of the House — if they ever get over here again——

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister should take it easy.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——they will not be able to affect the price of international commodities, except perhaps for the worst if they adopt some of the left wing policies so espoused by their predecessors.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Minister answer the question?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am answering the question. If the Deputy is entitled to wander off and make all sorts of wild allegations about people dying as a result of price increases and so on, I am entitled to answer in the same tone.

In regard to what Deputy Broughan said about oil and gas prices, they are not set in the United Kingdom, they are set much further afield. They are international commodities and the price of gas and oil obviously affects the price of electricity in this country. We do not have a great deal of control over that element of our costs but we have and should have some control. About 70% of the cost of electricity is external to this country and the other 30% is internal. That is a sizeable amount. I hope when we come to deal with electricity costs and so on in terms of a future energy policy, we will get full and enthusiastic backing from the Labour Party and it will not, as it usually does, take the side of people who do not want change in that industry and who have succeeded——

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister should tell us what he will do.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will tell the Deputy later this year and I will look for his enthusiastic support for the changes that will be necessary to ensure we can reduce some of the cost of electricity in this country.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I asked the Minister if he would make a simple amendment to the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill in terms of having a consumer component in the CER. On this side of the House we read the consultations held by the CER and, depressingly, we believe consumers were not taken into account. The Minister could do this in the coming weeks before we conclude the Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill. He could also issue directives in regard to the CER and refer to fiscal measures. What he said is not true, there are things the Minister can do. He is not just a bemused bystander, although he appears to be one.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am far from it. I hope the Deputy will support me in my efforts to reduce the cost of electricity when the time comes and that he will not find some excuse——

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We will see what the Minister does.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——to go off in a different direction just to placate some of his friends who are among the vested interests in this area——

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I told the Minister who I represent.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——who are keeping up the price of electricity.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I represent householders.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Deputy also represents some union members. He might have a chat with them in the meantime.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I represent householders first and foremost.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am pleased to hear that is who the Deputy represents. I look forward to vigorous support from him during the summer if that is the case and thank him for his pledge of support in that regard.

The National Consumer Agency, which has been set up by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, will undertake this role and examine future price applications in this area on behalf of consumers. The CER will also have its customer panels and customer charters in place. It has an obligation to take the customer into account as well as the market.