Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 1[i]a[/i]: To ask the Taoiseach the new terms and conditions of the centenarians' bounty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13424/06]

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 2[i]a[/i]: To ask the Taoiseach the new terms and conditions of the centenarians' bounty; the way in which it is expected that the bounty will be paid to Irish-born people living abroad; if they will have to apply for the bounty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14448/06]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 3[i]a[/i]: To ask the Taoiseach the new terms and conditions relating to the centenarians' bounty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16015/06]

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 4[i]a[/i]: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the new terms and conditions of the centenarians' bounty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16184/06]

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1a to 4a, inclusive, together.

On 28 March the Government approved in principle the extension of the scheme for the payment of the centenarians' bounty. Subsequently, on 25 April, the Government approved the arrangements for its operation on foot of recommendations by an interdepartmental working group. Up to now, the bounty was payable only to centenarians living in the State, regardless of nationality. This arrangement will also continue.

Under the new arrangements, payment of the bounty, which amounts to €2,500, will be extended in respect of any Irish citizen who was born on the island of Ireland, regardless of where he or she may currently reside. This aspect of the scheme will be managed by the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Over the past decades, hundreds of thousands of our people emigrated out of economic necessity. They made a huge contribution not only to their adopted country but many of them continued to contribute to their family in Ireland by sending home remittances. The centenarians' bounty is not just a practical gesture; it is also a token of regard. Therefore it is appropriate that this regard should be extended equally to Irish people wherever they are in the world. At a time in life for older emigrants when friends and family in Ireland may no longer be as numerous as they once were, it is a fitting gesture that the State should acknowledge their 100th birthday.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Taoiseach recall the words, "The centenarians' bounty is not just a practical gesture, it is also a token of regard. It is appropriate therefore that this regard should be extended equally to Irish people wherever they are in the world"? Does the Taoiseach recall making those remarks regarding new proposals for the centenarians' bounty? In the spirit of what he said, will the centenarians' bounty apply to citizens living in the Six Counties area of our country? I welcome what I understood him to say, namely, that people resident in this State, regardless of whether they were born in it, who reach their 100th birthday will benefit. I am anxious to establish the situation heretofore regarding citizens north of the Border, the situation now regarding the new terms and conditions being introduced, and the method with regard to accessing the bounty. Does it require an application from the individual citizen or, if personally unable, from a family member on his or her behalf?

Since the State has not yet existed for 100 years, and past recipients of the centenarians' bounty — and future ones until 2022 — enjoyed it having simply been born in Ireland, will the Taoiseach ensure that it will be paid to Irish citizens in the Six Counties under the new terms and conditions?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the first part of the Deputy's question, I believe that he quotes a previous statement, but he also quotes from what I said today. "The centenarians' bounty is not just a practical gesture, it is also a token of regard. It is appropriate therefore that this regard should be extended equally to Irish people wherever they are in the world." I have repeated what I said previously. The answer to the Deputy's second question is "yes". Any centenarian born on the island of Ireland and who is an Irish citizen will be eligible to apply, regardless of where the person now resides. That will apply regardless and not simply to those born before 1920 or 1921.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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And into the future.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, and into the future. It applies to every eligible Irish person, no matter when he or she was born. There is provision in the scheme whereby someone born before 1906 who did not apply previously can do so retrospectively. Anyone alive today who was born before that date is entitled to apply.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Did that apply heretofore regarding residents of the North of Ireland, or is that only under the new terms and conditions?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It did not apply previously, since the scheme was far more limited. However, legal advice that I had requested and taking into account the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 2001 is that any person born on the island of Ireland before the commencement of that Act is entitled to this as an Irish citizen and that only an Irish citizen is entitled. The view was that the provisions should apply to the island of Ireland. One could ask when the relevant period started, but to do so would be very unfair to people. It should be clear that the provisions apply to anyone alive who is over 100 years of age and was born on the island of Ireland.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The key question is who will get the centenarian vote.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I welcome what the Taoiseach has said and I also agree with the context in which he has put the matter. The Taoiseach will be aware that I have raised the matter on behalf of my party and that Deputy Stagg has pursued it over a period. At the outset of this Dáil we devoted our Private Members' business to the question of emigrants living outside the State, mainly in the British cities. To my surprise it was the first time in the history of Dáil Éireann that we had such a debate. All sides of the House were supportive of the case we sought to make. Does the Taoiseach not agree that this is probably the least important of the proposals we made and the least important of the proposals in the joint document published by Labour and Fine Gael in terms of our emigrants. While this was one of the proposals, it was not the most important. Does the Taoiseach intend to address any of the other issues on that agenda? Will the State locate those people living, for example, in Britain? Will the State proactively seek to establish who is entitled to the bounty?

While doing little things that are meaningful, will the Taoiseach cause the national broadcaster to renew the service to Irish emigrants living in cities in Britain, especially those in London, who have made representations for the restoration of that service? While it is a small step, we seem unable to restore that service. Has RTE made the decision for reasons of finance——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is going well outside the scope of these questions.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Few of the people whose interests my party sought to advocate here will survive to 100 years. Many of them are in bad circumstances in British cities, living in very poor conditions and so on and unfortunately will not experience a life of 100 years or more. Is it the Government's intention to make any small reforms that are in the interests of the people who are still with us?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the general point that Deputy Rabbitte has raised, over the life of this Government, with no urgings from anybody, we have made a large number of decisions that have helped emigrants, including helping local authorities with housing, dealing with many aspects of health, improving the DION grants, establishing the consular service in the United States to fund organisations that we previously did not fund etc. There is a whole range of these issues. I am well aware of the matter Deputy Stagg has pursued. I raised it in London some years ago and made an issue of it with the RTE people. I asked for the technicalities to be investigated. That is an issue with others. There were issues about television schemes and travel schemes. It is not possible to address some of these issues under European Union law, but we have followed them up. Under the broadcasting Bill being prepared, RTE's public service remit will be broadened to include broadcasting to the Irish abroad, subject to EU approval on state aid. That is the point Deputy Stagg asked me to follow up, and Deputy Rabbitte raised it last week.

This concerns the question put down by Deputies Rabbitte, Ó Caoláin, Kenny and Sargent because it had long been said that it was difficult to do it this way. The Federation of Irish Societies and others asked me some years ago to consider how we might deal with this issue. We decided that any Irish citizen born on the island of Ireland would be eligible.

The bounty will be paid retrospectively to any centenarian who previously applied and would have qualified if the new arrangements were in place. There will be administrative discretion as to whether it will be paid to centenarians who did not apply previously but would have been eligible if the new arrangements were in place. I do not see any difficulty in that, unless there is some strange reason not to pay them. In all circumstances, the bounty will be paid only to centenarians who are alive and will not be paid to the estates of any persons deceased. In response to Deputy Rabbitte, we will ask the embassies and consular services, which will operate the scheme, to do so proactively.

Some time ago, when I debated this with the Federation of Irish Societies, I commissioned a statistical exercise to see the figures for people born in 1904. In that year 103,811 people were born in the 32 counties. An actuary calculated that 625 should be alive on their 100th birthday.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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There are probably many more than that on the electoral register.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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God knows. Only 141 bounties, however, were paid in 2005. Whatever the figure, on that basis we lost close to 450 or 460 of the centenarians. There are Irish people who did not receive the bounty so it is worth making an effort to find them. This corrects a matter that elderly people considered unreasonable.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The old saying that "time and tide wait for no man" is true. When does the Taoiseach expect the scheme to become effective and operational? Do the figures available to the Taoiseach's Department give any idea how many people are approaching 100? If this scheme catches on, some of the 40 million Irish Americans who claim to be Irish on census forms might be interested in lodging an application too. Is it confined strictly to those born in Ireland?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach know the numbers involved?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The embassies and consular service must follow up on the proof of birth in Ireland. It is not just a matter of making an application, the candidates must prove they were born here. We are probably lucky in this country to have some of the best records available, including parish records of all the denominations that were active around the country then. The candidates must verify age, place of birth, citizenship and identity to the consular services and officers abroad, otherwise they will not be paid.

I checked the figure for 2005 before approaching the Department of Finance. Working on 1904 figures and at 141 bounties under the existing arrangements, the gross cost was €352,000. Based on actuarial figures there should be about 480 other centenarians living outside the State. Considering the number living in the State, this figure seems high, but even if it is correct the cost would be €1.2 million. The actuarial figures are based on an internationally recognised formula which is used by the Central Statistics Office. It is interesting that based on 1904 there should be 625 persons but there is only 141. This is an interesting statistic which shows what was happening to our earlier generations.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Eighty people in a two-bedroomed house.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Sargent has been called.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I welcome the extension of the centenarian bounty scheme to include Irish people born in Ireland but living abroad. While this initiative is welcome, it is hardly revolutionary, considering the schemes in other countries. For instance Irish Italians recently flocked to cast their votes for their new Prime Minister Prodi, his Green Party colleagues and others. In that context, will the Taoiseach clarify a reference both he and the Irish Independent made to Irish citizens being entitled to the bounty when they reach 100? I am sure go mbeidh fáilte roimhe sin ag an Athair Seosamh Ó Maoláin, mac le Michael Mallin, atá ina nóchaidí agus atá anois i Hong Kong. Ach, cad mar gheall ar dhaoine atá ina gcónaí anseo nach saoránaigh iad? The website refers to people who are resident in Ireland on their 100th birthday but does not seem to make reference to those with citizenship. Will the Taoiseach clarify the position of people who might not be Irish citizens but who are resident in Ireland on their 100th birthday?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As I have stated three times, persons must have been born in Ireland but can be resident anywhere on their 100th birthday. They must be Irish citizens who were born in Ireland and be able to prove they were born anywhere on the island of Ireland.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Why should it not apply to all citizens?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should allow the Taoiseach reply without interruption.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will apply to anyone born on the island of Ireland. It is not for somebody who arrives here at age 98 and claims to be 100.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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That means even at 100 years of age they are second class citizens in the State. This is ridiculous.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will allow a brief final question from Deputy Crawford.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the initiative. On a point of clarification, is a person who left this country at 16 years of age and became a United States citizen entitled to the bounty?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Once the person can prove she was born in Ireland, she is entitled to the bounty.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Her current citizenship does not debar her.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, once she can prove she was born on the island of Ireland.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Ceann Comhairle, may we have clarification of that issue?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thought the Deputy had asked his question.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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A clarification will only take a second.

Is the Taoiseach saying that an Irish citizen who is over 100 years of age, is not entitled to the bounty if he or she was not born in Ireland? I hope this is not what he is saying. It would mean that one could be a second class citizen even when over 100 years of age. I hope this is not the case.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The scheme is to deal with those living abroad; the current system still applies to anyone living here. Applicants must verify their age, their place of birth, their citizenship and their identity. We have been missing out on those living abroad as the scheme deals with those living in the country. There is not a problem regarding the people living here. The scheme is based on Irish citizens born in Ireland. As I said in my reply, up to now the bounty was payable only to centenarians living in the State, regardless of their nationality. I said that at the outset, and that arrangement will continue. The changes relate to those people living outside the country, but they must have been born in Ireland.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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A Cheann Comhairle——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I would prefer to move on to the next group of questions because we have spent a long time on these questions.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I will not detain the House too long.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move to the next question.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Briefly, I wish to ask-——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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If I call the Deputy, I have no choice but to call the other Deputies offering. That will mean we will not move forward on Question Time or get through many questions.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I do not know if anybody else has any further questions.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes, a number of Deputies are offering.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Nobody is offering.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I am offering.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies Ó Caoláin, Sargent and Joe Higgins are offering.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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No, I am not offering.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Deputy Sargent has deferred to me.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Joe Higgins never makes a half offer — he always makes a frontal attack.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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If Deputy Rabbitte wishes to speak, I suppose I can also speak.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Briefly, arising from what the Taoiseach said, it seems this is the first time our emigrants will have heard that the Government has decided, for reasons of EU law, that the free travel scheme is not available to Irish people returning here.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise out of this question.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It arises from what the Taoiseach said.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise out of this question.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister, Deputy Brennan, seems to have held out the hope for a number of years that this was something he could concede——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must be brief.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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——or might concede, or was working on conceding. Is it established from what the Taoiseach said that the Government has decided that this scheme cannot be extended to include Irish people returning from British cities?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter does not arise from this question.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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What does the Chair mean by saying it does not arise?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise out of this question.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It might not arise for the Ceann Comhairle. Certainly while he is in his current position, it does not arise for him, but it arises for very many of his contemporaries who are coming back from Britain.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This question deals exclusively with the bounty for people who reach the age of 100. I agree with the Deputy and I suggest he tables a question on this matter.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach knows that——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will allow the Taoiseach to answer the three questions, including the Deputy's question, together. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Taoiseach to note that in my initial response to what he said——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Has the Deputy a question?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is a question I am asking.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, it is not.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I indicated a welcome for these changes because I understood the Taoiseach was indicating the inclusion of people who had reached 100 years of age——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is being repetitive. I call Deputy Sargent.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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——now residing on our shores.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move to Question No. 1 on the Order Paper.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach again clarify the position because there is some confusion? It is not only on the basis of——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is making a statement. I ask him to resume his seat and let Deputy Sargent speak.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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If it is not the intent of the new conditions to include people now resident here, I ask the Taoiseach that we do so.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is making a speech. I call Deputy Sargent.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach clarify the position? I understand he will do so.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Will the Taoiseach confirm, as I asked him to do previously, that what is on the website and what people are reading from it is the full position? There is no mention of a requirement that a person must be born here. The website states that the centenarians' bounty is a national award made by the Irish President to people living in Ireland who have reached the age of 100 years. It also states that people who are resident in Ireland on their 100th birthday receive €2,540 and a congratulatory letter signed by the President. Can the Taoiseach stand over and deliver on that? In other words, will the scheme be expanded to the extent stated on the website rather than restricted only to people born on the island? If one is a citizen, surely one is equal in the eyes of the law in every respect, including this measure.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach to make a final reply.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On Deputy Ó Caoláin's point, up to now the existing position before I made any changes was that the bounty was payable only to centenarians living in the State, regardless of their nationality, and that arrangement will continue. If a person lives in the State and if he or she is 100 years of age, regardless of where he or she resides that person will receive the bounty. Is that clear? That is the current position. The recipient could come from anywhere. We are extending that measure to Irish people who were born in Ireland who might have left this country 80 years ago. There is no change in that aspect of the existing system in terms of the new system. Is that clear?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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They are hardly going to flock here just to collect the cheque.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am simply outlining the existing system and the new system. Let us not try to complicate something that is clear.

Conor Lenihan (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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It will not apply to all the people that Deputy Ó Caoláin has on the register.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will respond to Deputy Rabbitte's point. I have to make a distinction between gifts and services. The EU is not involved in the bounty because it is a gift whereas services are totally covered by EU law. Approximately 40,000 Irish pensioners are getting Irish pensions abroad. We have been trying to make those people eligible to get their services. That is the work we are endeavouring to do, but the difficulty with EU law is that we cannot open it beyond that. Under EU law, one cannot discriminate on the basis of nationality. We are trying to facilitate the 40,000 Irish people living abroad who receive the Irish pension.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Not too many Dutch-Irish people will come back here to avail of the free travel scheme.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should not bet on it. We are not just talking about Dutch people, we are talking about everybody.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The Dutch cycle everywhere anyway.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Under EU law, we cannot distinguish between people of different nationalities. I do not know what proportion of the 500 million people who live in the member states of the entire European Union are over the age of 66. That is what we have to protect. One cannot normally discriminate under EU law, particularly EU welfare law. If a member state gives something to its own citizens, it has to give it to the citizens of each of the 25 member states. I do not think anybody is arguing for that.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Government thinks it can extend it to the 40,000 pensioners in question.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is what it is endeavouring to do, but it has to be certain.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will now move on to questions from the original Order Paper.