Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is appropriate that I refer to Europe Day and the participation of Members from all parties in the structured debate tomorrow. However, I wish to ask the Taoiseach about another matter. He will be aware that over the past two years 11,000 serious crimes have been committed by people on bail, including 43 homicides, 500 assaults, 750 serious drug offences and thousands of thefts and burglaries. That amounts to more than 100 serious crimes a week committed by people who could and should be behind bars.

I suppose the Taoiseach was not glued to his television set over the weekend, but that was obviously the case with some from the other element of the Government. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, was out of the traps faster than Carl Lewis ever managed. In that regard I wish to ask the Taoiseach about persons committing serious crimes while on bail. The Fine Gael Party proposed at the weekend that, given the trend of 11,000 serious crimes having been committed, the courts should be authorised to tag electronically persons on bail so that their movements might be tracked full-time.

On Friday, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform stated that I had also referred to the electronic tagging of people as a condition of bail, something that, he contended, I well knew was already provided for in the Criminal Justice Bill now before the Dáil. The trouble is that it is not in the Bill before the Dáil. The Minister's Bill contains a provision to tag electronically people who have been convicted, which is what Deputy Jim O'Keeffe proposed last year. Is the Government putting a provision into the Bill giving the courts authorisation, if the judge deems necessary, to electronically tag persons being granted bail? Will the Taoiseach confirm that this provision is not contained in the Bill before the Dáil, contrary to what the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said on Friday?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the first point the Deputy made, the legislative provisions for the granting of bail are very stringent. The 16th amendment to the Constitution provides for the refusal of bail to a person charged with a serious offence where it is reasonably considered necessary to prevent the commission of a serious offence by that person. We amended the law to deal with that. The Bail Act 1997 gave effect to the amendment and it tightened up the bail regime generally. That provision exists for the court to deal with it.

The earlier Criminal Justice Act provides that any sentence of imprisonment passed on a person for an offence committed shall be consecutive on any offence passed on him or her for a previous offence. The granting of bail is in accordance with that Act. The amount of bail and sentencing are matters for the courts which are, subject only to the Constitution and law, independent in their exercise of judicial functions. The law is clear and the powers exist. The courts have the provision.

In earlier years people who were out on bail through early release schemes comprised about 15% of the overall prison population. The latest figures I have indicate this is now approximately 2.3%. The provisional figures for last year show that 5.36% of headline offences were committed by persons on bail and the statistics in the Garda Commissioner's report classify offences committed while on bail under the ten headline crime groups under which the reports are categorised. That is all I have to say about that. It is disturbing to read the offences committed by persons on bail. The offence for which a person has received bail may be a fairly minor one, which needs to be taken into account.

On the second question, subject to checking, Deputy Kenny is right. I believe that is the way the Bill is worded, if I recall correctly. I believe the Deputy is correct on that. Whether the Minister brings forward an amendment on Committee Stage is a matter for him. If I recall it, what the Deputy has said is correct.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I wish to give the Taoiseach credit for clarifying what is correct. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said that this provision was already contained in the Bill. I am glad the Taoiseach has asserted his authority in having the Bill passed at the Cabinet table and is now confirming that it is not in the legislation. He who knows everything about these matters——

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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And everything else as well.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——would be well advised to take note of the Taoiseach's confirmation, which I welcome.

While the referendum tightened the bail conditions in some respects, judges must still draw on a mixture of legislation and precedent when granting bail. It would be appropriate that a new bail Bill setting out all those conditions comprehensively should be introduced by the House.

Does the Taoiseach agree we should have a fast-tracking system by the Director of Public Prosecutions to the Court of Criminal Appeal, which would be a necessary addition to the legislative portfolio to deal with issues of release on bail given that the Taoiseach agrees with me that it is of concern that 11,000 serious crimes were committed in two years by persons released on bail? If this continues, almost 500,000 headline crimes will have been committed on the watch of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Will the Taoiseach comment on a fast-tracking system to the DPP and a new bail Bill making crystal clear the conditions which judges should apply so that they do not need to rely on a mixture of legislation and precedent as applies at the moment?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I again make the point I made earlier on bail. Before we changed the law, the courts had no power to keep somebody in prison pending a trial. Regardless of how likely they were to re-offend and even if they were certain to re-offend, the courts could not do that. The purpose of the Act was to give them that right. I do not see the point of setting it down — I think it is clear. While I do not want to repeat myself, the law in this regard following the amendment is clear. While I do not follow these matters from day to day, I have not seen anyone make the case that we need to set it down. I would have thought the Bail Act was clear now. If there is a risk of a serious offence, the courts can act. They can do something they could never do before, which is why it was necessary to have the 16th amendment to the Constitution and to have the Bail Act 1997. While it is not a decade on the Statute Book, perhaps legal minds believe there is an argument on it.

On another point, while I have given no thought to this, if we follow the road Deputy Kenny is advocating and prioritise, fast-track or list cases and specify a particular determination why they should be taken, all we would do would be to lengthen what I understand to be an already quite lengthy case list in the Court of Criminal Appeal. It is constantly under pressure for good reasons because of the list. If there is an argument for doing something on some cases, just to create a longer list for everybody else does not seem to be the solution.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The ugliest and most grotesque crime of all was committed in Ballymena over the weekend. I am sure all sides of the House agree with me in deploring the grotesque killing. On behalf of the Labour Party I extend our condolence to the family of Michael McIlveen.

Does this killing not highlight the urgency of all sides of the community proposing their confidence in and expressing their support for policing in Northern Ireland? Was it not the settled expectation on all sides that some movement from Sinn Féin could be anticipated before the Executive would be reinstated? How can this position be reconciled with the interview given today by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern? The following bizarre remarks are attributed to him: "The policy issue is not a precondition for the November deal". He went on to dismiss the anti-criminality campaign of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform as being merely politicking in the South. In the process he sent the message to Sinn Féin that it could now kick into "the middle distance" the issue of subscribing to policing and taking its positions on the boards in Northern Ireland.

In the context of the Lancaster House agreement in June 2004, the Taoiseach told this House that "support for policing from all sides of the community" was one of the four critical issues that needed to be tackled. As recently as January in the Farmleigh meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, the two Governments apparently concluded that they would like to see Sinn Féin confront the issue of policing once and for all. By the summer they wanted to see Sinn Féin give full recognition to the PSNI for the first time and join the policing boards, which would clear the way for the devolving of policing powers to a restored Executive in Northern Ireland. In December 2004 Mr. Adams told us he was prepared to sign up to all the political aspects of the agreement. How can that be reconciled with today's interview with the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern? Does the Taoiseach agree with him and does he also dismiss the anti-criminality campaign of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform as no more than politicking in the context of the South? Does the Taoiseach not agree that, as a result of this interview with the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, there is less prospect of the executive being reinstated because the signal is clear to the DUP that the Irish Government, at least, no longer requires movement on this critical issue to have the executive reinstated?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have always stated that policing is an enormously important issue in bringing normality to Northern Ireland. It is one of the few major outstanding issues and I have never deviated from that view. The Prime Minister and I emphasised the importance of this in January and in March. We have also emphasised that we would ask all parties, particularly Sinn Féin, to be clear on the devolution of policing and the legislation to provide for that.

Sinn Féin has always said it would not sign up until it saw the legislation and proposals. In fairness to Sinn Féin although it is not for me to argue its case, but to answer the question, it has made clear for the past few years that it would be prepared to have a special Ard-Fheis to deal with the issue of policing and to see the issues around policing clarified on the clear understanding that it would see the legislation and the date for devolution of policing.

Policing is one of the areas that divides Sinn Féin and the DUP. While everybody wants to see policing accepted, the DUP's position is that it should be a long time before it is devolved. I did not read any interview, but the Government wants to see all parties in Northern Ireland subscribe to policing. We support the devolution of policing. We want to see the devolution Bill passed and that issue addressed.

I have always been at one with the Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and Foreign Affairs on the issue of criminality. Nobody has been tougher on this issue and on Border activity than the Minister for Foreign Affairs, not only in his present position but in his political life for the past 20 years.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I never cease to be amazed at the interviews the Taoiseach reads and the ones he never notices. What he has just said cannot be reconciled with what the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dermot Ahern, said. Presumably the Taoiseach is not saying that powers for policing and justice can be transferred to Northern Ireland before the executive is reinstated. The Taoiseach said clearly after the meeting in Farmleigh that this had to be dealt with and he expected movement this summer.

He or his Minister for Foreign Affairs seem to be quite prepared to reward Sinn Féin for its stance on policing while a party such as the SDLP, that took the risk when it was neither popular nor profitable and went on to the policing boards and defended very unpopular decisions, is to be left out in the cold. It is an extraordinary interview. If the Taoiseach has not read it, which I do not believe, although I do not like to make accusations, he ought to read it. He cannot say he agrees with the Ministers for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and Foreign Affairs on the anti-criminality campaign because the Minister for Foreign Affairs makes it plain that he regards the utterances of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform as no more than politicking and electoralism in the context of the South.

Has the Government changed the consistent and settled expectation that there would be movement on this critical issue to facilitate the reinstatement of the executive? Is that no longer the position? Does the Government generally regard Deputy McDowell as being off on a frolic of his own in his various utterances about Sinn Féin? Is subscribing to policing in Northern Ireland and participation in the policing boards some requirement of the November deal? What message does that send out to the DUP? Is the Taoiseach saying he expects the DUP to participate in the reinstatement of the institutions in Northern Ireland although the Minister for Foreign Affairs has clearly signalled to Sinn Féin that it need not bother and can kick into "the middle distance" the question of allegiance to policing in Northern Ireland?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I hope Deputy Rabbitte believes me when I say I did not read the interview. I will read it, but I do not need to read it to know that the Minister for Foreign Affairs has always been strong on criminality in all its forms and has never gone easy with anyone, on any side in Northern Ireland, or in his own Border region, who has been engaged in criminal activity. He has been one of the most outspoken people in that respect. I defend the Minister on that position. I worked with the SDLP and John Hume and Seamus Mallon when they courageously moved on policing and joined the policing boards. We worked with them on the legislative provisions to give those boards the necessary strength and to assist them. It is true that members of the SDLP, and other independent members, took great risks and were subjected to intimidation on these issues. The Government has always supported those people.

It has been the position of the Government that proper policing is needed to get away from vigilante activities and criminality in the North and to deal with the rising drugs problem. The only way to achieve that was to work on the basis of the Patten report, to reform what was the RUC and to develop the PSNI, as has happened. No police authority or organisation in the world is subject to so much scrutiny by an ombudsman and oversight officers and commissioners. Its leadership has worked extremely hard to implement that.

Sinn Féin and the other parties well know our position, as does the public. We would like to see them sign up to policing at the earliest possible date. Sinn Féin's position has been that when the devolution of policing Bill is passed and it sees the position in regard to working on the executive with the police it will deal with the issue. That is its stated position. There has been no deviation from, or change in that position.

Not having read the article I cannot tell whether the Deputy is taking this out of context but it is certainly out of context of what the Minister has often said at meetings and in this House. How that is interpreted in an article I cannot say until I have read it. Government policy on these issues is very clear. We want to see policing in Northern Ireland work and people involved in and committed to this. The Deputy asks what signal that sends out to the DUP. I remind the Deputy that the DUP's stated position is that policing should not be devolved for a considerable number of years, which is not compatible with the position of the two Governments.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There has been much concern and a debate in this House recently about the terrible toll arising from road traffic accidents. Is the Taoiseach aware the number of deaths on our roads is exceeded by the number of deaths from suicide and that we have one of the highest rates of suicide in the world? It is the most common cause of death among young people and in particular among young males between the ages of 15 and 24, our statistics within that age group being the highest in the EU. Will the Taoiseach agree that what is needed is a much greater awareness of this serious problem and an understanding of it? In that context, does he share my concerns at the comments attributed to Deputy McDaid at the weekend where he has accused people of glorifying suicide victims at their funerals? He has described suicide acts where he stated mental illness was not a factor, as being selfish acts.

My purpose is not to personalise this issue but to highlight the need for greater awareness. We need to avoid statements such as that of Deputy McDaid, which only stigmatise people and create even greater distress for families which are already suffering the bereavement of the loss of a loved one.

Are there suicides where the mental health of the person who took their own life and particularly at the time of their death, is not in question? I do not know the answer but I wonder if Deputy McDaid is making that point. When Deputy McDaid criticises the bearing of the remains of someone who has died by suicide up the centre aisle of their respective chapel or church, is he suggesting they should be condemned from the pulpit or interred outside the consecrated grounds of their local cemetery, a terrible practice that was maintained for generations? Will the Taoiseach agree there are social factors such as unemployment, alcoholism, physical and sexual abuse and relationship breakdown, which can often be the backdrop to many of these tragedies? Will the Taoiseach not recognise that given the enormity of the problem across this State, and across this island as statistics North of the Border have demonstrated recently, that what is needed is to fully resource and implement the National Strategy for Action on Suicide Prevention 2005-2014? Will the Taoiseach seek the co-operation of all who have a role to play and a contribution to make under the All-Ireland Ministerial Council, to give this issue the strategic consideration it needs and the strategic address it deserves, given the great hurt that exists?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy raised a number of points. He has asked me to account for somebody else's views which I will not do. People are entitled to their views, be they medical practitioners or teachers and I am not going to examine people's views.

The national statistics for suicide show a figure of approximately 400 a year. Recent research shows that the most vulnerable category is single adult males. I am not a medical expert but even those experts differ on this issue. Mental illness, alcohol or other substance abuse, loneliness or loss of societal esteem and dignity, the weather and the time of year, are all put forward as factors. I do not know the answer.

What we can do, and what we have endeavoured to do and what has been pressed for in the House over the past number of years, is to give all the respect, care and help we can to families and relatives, and to try to do something for society in future. This is achieved by means of the Department of Social and Family Affairs and by means of the relevant national, regional and local organisations which receive financial support through the Family Support Agency to support grieving families which deserve all our support and respect.

Social, personal and health education programmes are now compulsory in all schools. They aim to build self-esteem and confidence as a means of suicide prevention among young people. These are constructive initiatives. There has been an increase in the numbers of guidance counsellors in all schools. I commend the attitude of trying to be helpful and caring and the efforts to try to resolve the fears and concerns of people.

I know from the small number of people — too many — whom I have known who committed suicide, in some cases the reason was understandable but in most cases there was no iota of a reason for their actions as there was no obvious reason, motivation or level of stress that should have pushed them to do it. The fact that life is more complicated is part of the reason.

The other issue is that it is no longer a crime and people are not ostracised in their religious communities, or at least not in one of them. People now come forward and families state their reasons. The numbers may always have been high but they may not have been classified as suicides for reasons such as referred to by the Deputy and by me.

The Government's position is to support the important research to identify the problems and identify solutions for the future, to educate young people and to help them by means of guidance counsellors, to support their self-esteem and confidence by means of the compulsory programmes in schools and by means of the Family Support Agency to provide the best possible assistance to grieving families. This is a suitable way for the Government to deal with the issue.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach agree that to take one's own life is an act of sheer desperation and not one of selfishness? Is the Taoiseach aware that a recent report has indicated that somewhere between 40% to 60% of people who suffer from schizophrenia will in the course of their lives attempt to take their own life and that some 10% of people with schizophrenia die by suicide? Will the Taoiseach again indicate to the House his intent and the commitment of his Government to fully resource and implement the National Strategy for Action on Suicide Prevention 2005-2014? That is critically important. Will he agree that rather than blaming or stigmatising victims of suicide, what is needed are effective programmes? It is critically important to begin within the education system. Will the Taoiseach agree that what is required is a far greater awareness of and education not only on the issue of suicide but its placement in the context of the overall issue of mental health? We must be bold enough to state exactly where this needs to be addressed.

On the issue of mental health, we must combat the stigmatisation of people suffering from any degree of mental illness. We must recognise and be prepared to acknowledge the likelihood that any one in four of our population, and any one in four of our number, will experience and suffer from some degree of mental illness in the course of our lives. It is important that we address this issue in that way and start at the earliest age possible to empower and strengthen young people to face the difficulties and challenges of life.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy raised some points, which I have already answered in terms of how we are dealing with this issue in a caring way through the education system. He has asked me to confirm again the position on the national strategy for action on suicide prevention. That strategy was launched in September of last year. It builds on the existing policy and on the recommendations of the report of the national task force on suicide which the Government implemented in its first year in office in 1998. The recommendations proposed four levels of action comprising the strategy, which included the general population approach, the target approach, responding to suicide, and information and research. We have followed all those recommendations for the past eight years since the publication of the report of the national task force on suicide.

Deputy Ó Caoláin mentioned the question of resources. We have invested resources to the value of approximately €25 million in the mental health programme. The Government has done an enormous amount in the area of mental health, one being the establishment of the Mental Health Commission. It has also improved the provision of mental health services to ensure that people's interests are maintained and protected.

On the question of family support services, we give a great deal of assistance to various organisations, including self-help organisations, the families of the bereaved and to young people. Courses in the education programme covering this issue are compulsory in schools. Therefore, we have done a great deal in this respect.

In the all the years I have been in this position, Deputy Neville has continually raised this issue with me. I am sure he would agree that we have moved a long way in this area. He has been raising questions on this issue for as I long as I am in this position. We have also developed a strategy for action for suicide prevention.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do not see Deputy Neville nodding his head in assent.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have moved forward with the Reach Out strategy which was launched last year. We have invested resources in this area.

I will not answer Deputy Ó Caoláin's point in terms of trying to identify which groups are most likely to commit suicide. The Deputy made great play of arguing with what Deputy McDaid, a medical doctor who has raised this issue many times in his medical career, not to mind his political career, said on this issue in terms of how wrong he was to stigmatise somebody. Deputy Ó Caoláin then moved on to point out the categories of people who are most likely to commit suicide. That is muddled thinking on the Deputy's part.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is not muddled thinking. I cited what is in the report.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to allow the Taoiseach to continue.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Whatever reasons or categories of people are involved, we must try to deal with them. The 1998 report of the national task force on suicide set out the position on this issue. The Government launched Reach Out — A National Strategy for Action on Suicide Prevention ten months ago. We have allocated resources to the national task force on suicide and to the education system in terms of the social, personal and health education programme, which is compulsory in our schools. We have also allocated guidance counsellors. Far from not moving forward in this area, I am trying to improve the position. I also support ongoing research on this issue. The Government has been proactive in this area.