Dáil debates

Tuesday, 9 May 2006

2:30 pm

Photo of Liam TwomeyLiam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Question 68: To ask the Minister for Defence the legislative changes which are required to enable Ireland's participation in EU battle groups; when same will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17100/06]

Photo of Paul GogartyPaul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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Question 71: To ask the Minister for Defence the capabilities and military personnel which will be made available to an EU battle group; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17183/06]

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Question 78: To ask the Minister for Defence the like-minded nations with which Ireland has had discussions with respect to participation in EU battle groups; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17094/06]

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Question 86: To ask the Minister for Defence if he will expand on recent comments he made while speaking at the University of Limerick that he finds the use of the term "battle group" unfortunate; the reason he stated same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17210/06]

Photo of Ruairi QuinnRuairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Question 88: To ask the Minister for Defence the position regarding the negotiations he has been involved in with potential partner countries that Irish troops would serve alongside in EU battle groups; when a final decision on this issue will be made; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17211/06]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Question 94: To ask the Minister for Defence the latest timetable for legislation allowing Irish soldiers to participate in EU battle groups; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17209/06]

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Question 103: To ask the Minister for Defence his rationale for participating in EU battle groups; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17204/06]

Photo of Liam TwomeyLiam Twomey (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Question 107: To ask the Minister for Defence the capabilities Ireland can contribute to EU battle groups as outlined to Ireland's Swedish counterparts in Stockholm on 9 and 10 March 2006; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17098/06]

Photo of Dan BoyleDan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Question 109: To ask the Minister for Defence when legislation will be forthcoming to facilitate Ireland's participation in EU battle groups; the details of the legislation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17179/06]

Photo of Paul GogartyPaul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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Question 110: To ask the Minister for Defence if he will report on the meeting of representatives from his Department with their Swedish counterparts in Stockholm on 9 and 10 March 2006 to discuss Ireland joining the Nordic battle group; if there have been further consultations with the Swedish Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17182/06]

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 116: To ask the Minister for Defence when he will publish the interdepartmental reports examining all issues relating to Ireland's potential participation in EU battle groups; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17095/06]

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 470: To ask the Minister for Defence the discussions he has had with his EU colleagues in the matter of the formation of EU-led battle groups; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17417/06]

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 471: To ask the Minister for Defence if he has been approached by the EU or the UN in regard to the composition of EU battle groups, task forces or PFP; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17418/06]

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 476: To ask the Minister for Defence the position in regard to the development of RAPID response forces within or outside the European Union; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [17423/06]

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 68, 71, 78, 86, 88, 94, 103, 107, 109, 110, 116, 470, 471 and 476 together.

The ambition of the EU to respond rapidly to emerging crises has been, and continues to be, a key objective of the development of the European Security and Defence Policy, ESDP. The tasks to be carried out under ESDP, the so-called Petersberg Tasks, are defined in the Amsterdam treaty as "humanitarian and rescue tasks, peacekeeping tasks and tasks of combat forces in crisis management, including peacemaking". Our participation in ESDP and the Petersberg Tasks has been endorsed and supported directly by the Irish people in the referendum on the Treaty on European Union and the subsequent referenda on the Amsterdam and Nice treaties. Our participation in ESDP is also fully in accordance with our traditional support for the UN and our obligations as members of the international community, to respond to crises, events and humanitarian disasters, wherever they may occur. Because ESDP is an element of common foreign and security policy, Petersberg Tasks will be undertaken only outside the borders of the EU.

The United Nations has not been in touch with me directly concerning the composition of EU battle groups. However, the UN recognises and supports the development of EU battle groups as a key factor in enabling it to respond more rapidly and with greater authority to emerging crises. During his visit to Dublin in October 2004 the UN Secretary General, Mr. Kofi Annan, stressed the importance of battle groups and requested Ireland's support for them. Ireland supports the development of the EU's rapid response capability in support of UN authorised missions and is positively disposed towards participation in the battle groups concept in this regard.

I believe the term "battle groups" can be misleading. It is a standard technical military term to describe a coherent military force package capable of stand-alone operations, with full transport and logistics support capabilities to carry out its tasks. It may be defined as the minimum militarily effective, credible, rapidly deployable, coherent force package capable of stand-alone operations, or for the initial phase of larger operations. While the term is understood in military terms, the word has connotations that some may wish to exploit to raise baseless fears and mislead the public. What is meant by battle groups in this respect is a corps of troops that could respond quickly to a crisis.

I established the interdepartmental group and am bringing forward proposals as a result of that. Discussions with other like-minded nations on a potential contribution by Ireland to a battle group have now commenced. A delegation consisting of representatives from the Departments of Defence and Foreign Affairs and the Defence Forces met their Swedish counterparts in Stockholm on 9 and 10 March to discuss possible participation by the Defence Forces in the Nordic battle group. Our representatives outlined Ireland's position on battle group participation and international peacekeeping generally and gave a presentation on the capabilities that Ireland can make available to a battle group. These range from smaller niche capabilities to an APC mounted light infantry company group of approximately 200 personnel plus support elements.

This is being considered by Sweden, which is the framework nation for the Nordic battle group. Further consultations between the Defence Forces and the Swedish armed forces and between officials of the respective ministries are planned. The Nordic battle group was organised some time ago and most of the core elements are already in place, with Sweden contributing the core manoeuvre battalion. In addition, battle groups covering the period through 2010 have already been announced and, on this basis, I would expect our contribution in the period to 2010 to be limited. However, this will be a matter for discussion with other member states over the coming months, in particular with Finland and Austria with whom we have also had some initial informal exploratory discussions.

In the event that we participate in a Nordic battle group we would be the only participant with a legal requirement for a UN mandate. Many member states acknowledge that it would be politically desirable, if not a political imperative, to have a UN mandate for any battle group deployment.

I am fully satisfied that our participation in the battle group concept in no way weakens or undermines Ireland's traditional policy of military neutrality. I have reiterated on many occasions that our participation in peace support operations would continue to require UN authorisation. Participation in battle groups will not diminish this requirement in any way. Ireland's basis for participation in missions undertaken by the EU is grounded in the legitimacy conveyed by the UN Security Council. This will not change. The triple lock of UN, Government and Dáil approval will remain in place.

As part of its study the interdepartmental group recommended changes to current legislation in light of the increasing range of operations where military forces can play a role and the need for increased interoperability and training so that we can be more effective and more efficient once deployed. The requirement for this amending legislation arises irrespective of our participation in battle groups. Moreover, in light of developments since the Defence Act was amended in 1960 to provide for participation in UN peace support operations, for the avoidance of doubt, I also intend to update the wording in the Act to reflect current practice in the formulation of UN Security Council resolutions endorsing peace support operations more closely. The triple lock requirement of UN, Government and Dáil approval will stand. I also propose to provide for participation by Defence Forces personnel in humanitarian operations in response to natural and man-made disasters such as the tsunami in south-east Asia and the earthquake in Pakistan.

All those issues are important and must be addressed. To that end I will formally bring the draft heads of a Bill to the Government for approval in the next few weeks and, with the Opposition's co-operation, I expect to have the necessary legislation enacted before the summer recess.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister answered my last supplementary question in his response. Will he confirm that Ireland has not had discussions with anyone outside, such as the Swedes, Finns or Austrians? Will he reiterate also that he has had no discussions with his British counterpart?

I agree with much of the Minister's policy, but on the linchpin of the triple lock I vehemently disagree. I believe he stated before the committee that having the triple lock in place reflected the view of the people. On a personal level and in his capacity as Minister for Defence, would he not find matters more flexible and his job easier if the triple lock were no longer in place, allowing him to make his own decisions?

I welcome Deputy Costello, the Labour spokesperson on defence issues. Unfortunately, he will not find the photo opportunities that he did when he had the justice brief since the media do not accord the coverage they should to defence. The Minister, Deputy O'Dea, would do a great service——

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Minister gets all the opportunities.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I know he does. On the Minister's comment about the will of the people, I have attended a few public meetings, and my party had its Ard-Fheis over the weekend. I disagree with him, since the will of the people is that we are now mature enough to make our own decisions. The Minister could be very innovative and visionary if he encouraged his Cabinet colleagues to stage a referendum on the issue of Ireland's neutrality, membership of the non-aligned group, or whatever we call it nowadays.

Perhaps I should have said "more visionary" rather than simply "visionary".

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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Night vision.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I am appalled at Deputy Timmins's suggestion that the Minister should make all such decisions alone without being bound by the triple lock. Until recently I was my party's spokesperson for the remit of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, and I would be appalled at the thought of the Minister in charge, Deputy McDowell, not having to refer back to the Government before he sent troops abroad in the form of battle groups, peacekeepers, peacemakers or anything else. The mind boggles when one considers the absence of the triple lock under such circumstances.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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A double lock.

Photo of Joe CostelloJoe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Before we hastily dismantle the triple lock, let us consider that we might have a different Minister in charge at some point.

I agree that the triple lock is good in the sense that we have a United Nations mandate and that it is referred to the Government and the Oireachtas. From that perspective, we can move forward positively in any decision of that nature. Regarding the origins of the battle group proposals, the Minister has said that he will introduce legislation before the end of this session. Where did the idea come from and who raised the issue with us? I presume it is a matter of tradition regarding the Nordic countries that we are in discussions with Sweden on implementing the battle group concept.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with Deputy Timmins's suggestion that we have discussed this, formally or informally, only with the Nordic states, Austria and Finland. We have not discussed it with the United Kingdom for the very good reason that it is providing its own single-nation battle group. Since each will consist of at least 1,500 troops, we will be part of a multinational one. The most troops that we can send abroad at any time is 850. Britain is one of four European countries submitting a full battle group, meaning that there is no room for joining up with it.

We are dealing with Sweden and the other Nordic states because we have worked with them a great deal in peacekeeping operations. For example, we are working with the Swedes in Liberia, which is almost a battle group situation. There is a quick reaction force there. Interoperability between the Irish and the Swedes is very good. We are familiar with how the Swedish army operates and vice versa, and we know each other's chains of command and so on. From the perspective of being familiar with how the other operates, that is very useful.

Regarding Deputy Timmins's other point, I disagree. If the people were canvassed on the matter, the majority would prefer us to operate in military adventures abroad only as a result of a United Nations resolution. In this instance, the Labour Party, the Green Party and all the others in the House are better at reading the will of the people than Fine Gael which stands alone in its wish to enable Ireland to deploy unilaterally.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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What about the Progressive Democrats, Fianna Fáil's partners in Government?

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The Progressive Democrats is part of the Government, which is fully united behind the triple lock.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Some of them.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Those are brave words.

Photo of Billy TimminsBilly Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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This is the chance.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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It will be very interesting if, when security and defence matters are discussed at the next election, Fine Gael goes off in one direction and its potential partners in the opposite.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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That sounds worried.