Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Question 5: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the position with regard to the establishment of the Garda reserve; when he expects the first recruits to the reserve to begin training; if a final decision has been made on the numbers to be recruited; his views on the decision of the main representative organisations not to co-operate with the reserve; if he plans further discussions with the representative bodies; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15880/06]

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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In July 2005, as part of a submission on the future resourcing requirements of the Garda, the Garda Commissioner proposed the recruitment of up to 4,000 reserve members, as provided for in the Garda Síochána Act 2005, and an increase in the force's strength from 14,000 to 15,000. In response, and in the context of identifying policing priorities for inclusion in the Garda policing plan for 2006, I set the objective of the recruitment of 900 reserve members by September 2006. Subsequently, the Commissioner submitted detailed proposals to me on the recruitment, training, powers, duties and deployment of reserve members. The proposals envisage a thoroughly trained reserve with carefully selected powers and duties, working under the supervision of members of the Garda.

I must make regulations under the 2005 Act, with Government approval, to give effect to these proposals. I have made it clear that, before I do so, I would like to have detailed consultations with the Garda representative associations and I intend also to refer the regulations in draft form to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights for its consideration. I should have them in the next few days. The recruitment campaign for reserve members will commence as soon as the regulations are made.

I have met representatives of all four Garda associations on this issue and have invited them to further and more detailed discussions. The Garda reserve will reinforce the links between the Garda and local communities and it will enhance the capacity of the force to respond to emerging policing challenges. I have seen how well special constabularies, which are broadly equivalent to the reserve, work in Britain and how good and effective are the relations between them and the regular police forces. This is a great opportunity to enhance the policing service and I urge the two main Garda associations to take the opportunity to make their contribution to it. My door is open for consultation.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Did the Minister give a commitment to the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors that no members of the reserve force would be deployed during the lifetime of this Dáil? The answer is "yes" or "no".

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I did not make such a commitment. I dealt with this issue the last time I was in the House for question time. At the time the draft heads of the Bill were being published, there was a Government freeze on any further recruitment to the Garda Síochána above 12,200. I told the AGSI that I would never use a reserve as a substitute to arrive at the 14,000 member mark, which was promised in the programme for Government. As things stood at that time, it was unlikely that any recruiting of the reserve would be done in the life of this Government. Things changed——

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Or while he remained Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I have ambitions which might go beyond that.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Those words were also included.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I did not give the AGSI an undertaking that I would resign at the end of this Government's term.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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There is no need to do that. The people will do it for him.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I listened carefully to the Dáil debate on the issue. At the beginning, there were delay mechanisms to the introduction of the reserve force. The overwhelming consensus of this House — the only exception to which was the view of the Sinn Féin Deputies — was that I should go ahead and recruit the reserve now. The joint committee sent a delegation to view how reservists work in the UK and it was so impressed that it was in favour of the proposition. I am only doing what the Oireachtas wants me to do.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I posed a simple question which has a "yes" or "no" answer.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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No, I did not give any undertaking, but yes, I gave a prediction that it would not happen.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is a simple "yes" or "no" answer. In my first meeting with the AGSI spokesmen, they said the Minister gave such a commitment. Did the Minister contact them subsequently to resile from that when circumstances altered and the embargo was changed? It would have been good practice to do so.

I share the view of the previous Labour Party spokesman on justice, Deputy Costello, that there is a role for a reserve force. Will the September 2006 target to deploy 900 recruits be met? Does he accept the Garda Commissioner's recommended number of 4,000 recruits in total? What is the training regime for the reserve? Is it set in stone or is it subject to negotiation? Is the Minister now sure of the specific powers to be devolved to the new reserve force?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I received a submission from the Commissioner with his proposals on the functioning of the reserve. That sets out in extenso his view of the powers that the reserve force should have. It is not his function to determine these matters, but rather a question for the Government to make an order. I intend to consult with the joint committee on these issues before we arrive at a final position.

I originally spoke of a ratio of 1:10, which means there would be about 1,400 members of the reserve force. The Garda organisation development unit was working on that basis in early 2005. Different views have been expressed since then. Deputy O'Keeffe suggested 5,000.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I thought I mentioned 4,000.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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He came up with 5,000. I have him on record in expansive humour. It does not matter. If the size of the reserve relative to the full-time force is a matter of concern to the force, I am willing to discuss that issue. I wish to arrive at a consensus with the Garda representative organisations. If they have a major problem with that issue, then I am willing to discuss the limit of the reserve with them.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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What about the figure of 900 by September?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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That is the target.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Does it remain the target?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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It remains the target for September. Training must be carried out and I cannot suddenly click my fingers and establish training courses all over Ireland. These things must be done gradually and must be done to a high standard.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The figure of 900 was in the context of 4,000. If the Minister is moving from that, it would represent an olive branch to move the September deadline as well.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If I thought that was the case, I would say so. As far as I am concerned, 900 recruits is an achievable target for this year. How far we go beyond that target is a matter on which I am genuinely willing to consult. The two representative associations which have thus far expressed opposition in principle to the idea have not been willing to discuss any other figure. I have indicated to them that I am willing discuss other figures if that interests them.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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What about training and powers?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The training must be part of the regulations establishing the reserve. I am definitely willing to discuss the issue with anybody who wishes to do so and I will discuss it with the joint committee.