Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to amend the code of conduct for office holders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9146/06]

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to amend the code of conduct for office holders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10198/06]

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he intends to amend the code of conduct for office holders. [10201/06]

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if procedures are in place for a review of the operation of the code of conduct for office holders; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10570/06]

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach if there will be a review of the code of conduct for office holders. [13068/06]

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 5 to 9, inclusive, together.

The code of conduct for office holders was drawn up by the Government following consultation with the Standards in Public Office Commission and has applied since 3 July 2003. I have exchanged recent correspondence with the commission with regard to the provisions of section 2.2.3 of the code with a view to providing office holders with clear guidelines as to the usage of public resources in the context of public events or advertising.

This is the only issue that has arisen since the code came into operation and I firmly believe we would be ill advised to begin considering amending or replacing it until we have allowed sufficient time to review its operation particularly in the context of a general election period.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Prior to the local elections the then Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Noel Dempsey, sent out material from his Department to draw up election information for Fianna Fáil. Subsequently, he repaid €2,500 in respect of that material. Around the same time the former Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Fahey, was in difficulty about the use of Government headed paper.

In June 2004, the Standards in Public Office Commission found that both Ministers had not appropriately observed the code of conduct for office holders, in particular sections 1.5 and 2.2.3. Last year it emerged that a civil servant who worked in the Department of the then Minister of State, Deputy Callely, resigned because the Minister required her to attend a political function which was outside the terms of the remit of a civil servant. I understand the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, asked a civil servant to attend a Fianna Fáil parliamentary party meeting to give a briefing on a particular matter. Does the Taoiseach agree that is a breach of the code of conduct? Under no circumstances should public servants be asked by Ministers in any Government to attend at exclusively party-political meetings where the interests of the party could override the issue at hand and be seen to politicise the public service. Will the Taoiseach comment on that? Does he agree this kind of activity leads to a situation where a Minister is open to a charge of allowing the interests of party politics to take precedence over the public good and public office requirements?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There have been very few breaches of the code. Ministers have sometimes not been careful enough or have inadvertently allowed literature go out and three or four of them have had to pay back in that regard. With regard to the advertising which involved Deputy Callely, the Standards in Public Office Commission gave a view which I brought to the attention of all. It is a difficult area where Ministers have to promote something but cannot be seen to promote themselves. The code gives the guideline people should follow.

On the issue of officials, it would be wrong for civil servants to be asked to go to a parliamentary party meeting in terms of our general parliamentary meetings. However, it has always been the practice, and I have seen this in Opposition as well as in Government, that if a Bill, proposal or certain data is on the agenda, a civil servant may come along to explain the issue. The civil servant in question just gives the departmental position and I do not see anything wrong in that. It could, in fact, be good from the point of view of providing information. This practice has been around a long time and is good, but it would not be good for a civil servant to be in on a parliamentary meeting where all of the party business is on the agenda. I do not see anything wrong with the civil servant being invited to brief party committees that are working on a particular proposal. That is good and all parties do it from time to time. The civil servants should not, of course, be asked to do anything other than explain or answer questions on what is being done. They should not engage in party political discussion.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach has touched on a relevant point. Public perception of these issues is important. If a senior civil servant is asked to go to a political party meeting to give a briefing, the public reaction is that the public servant is in with the party to whom he or she is giving the briefing. Perhaps it might be more appropriate if the public service were to announce a briefing on a Bill or section in the briefing room in Leinster House 2000 for Members of the Oireachtas during a set period. Then members of the Taoiseach's or my political party could go to such a briefing, which is very different from members of one political party being addressed by a public servant. In terms of providing good information and a proper briefing, it might be helpful but there is a distinction drawn in the public mind between the Minister asking a public servant to go to a party political meeting as opposed to giving a briefing to Members of the Oireachtas, of all parties and none.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not want to be too fussy about this. Years ago, when I was in Opposition and doing some research on manpower policies, I was able to get access to civil servants to brief me on particular issues. When I researched the Trade Union Act and the changes to the Trade Disputes Act 1906, I was also able to get civil servants to give me a briefing on process. I do not see any difficulty with that. Obviously, if civil servants are put in a position of a party political nature, that is wrong, but briefings are useful. As good as a Minister or an Opposition spokesperson may be, he or she will not have the same grasp or detailed knowledge as an official who has been working on legislation or a proposal.

Politicians should not be restricted. It is difficult enough in Opposition for people to organise things but if people are prepared to give briefings, they should be allowed to do so. It may not always be possible to have an open briefing, but it should be. We should not let ourselves get too politically correct to the extent that we cut ourselves off from access to information. It often seems more relevant when people have to come here to brief us.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach elaborate on the changes — I think I heard him say changes — to the provisions for public advertising? I know what he is saying when he argues that sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between what is being promoted and who is doing the promoting. However, I would not want the Taoiseach to get away with too much innocence here. I know his innocent persona has served him well and it probably is because he is as innocent as the new-born babe but he will remember that, coming up to the previous general election, a dozen or more of his Ministers contrived to find public information announcements that they had to communicate to the people, by radio advertisements, in newspapers and so forth. We all know, whatever about the innocence affected in this House, that the purpose was to promote the Ministers and the Government, not to disseminate public information. What changes will the Taoiseach be making in this area, will they be laid before the House and when will we be able to examine them?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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When that issue came up, a fair point was made about it and I acknowledged that at the time. It was the subject of a complaint to the commission which examined the complaint but did not consider there was any basis on which to pursue the matter. However, arising from consideration of the matter and following communication with the commission, I issued guidelines to Ministers on the issue. I do not know if those guidelines are in the public domain but I have no problem putting them there.

The point was that one can give information but should not build it into an advertising campaign on oneself. It should be about the issue. The commission had no difficulty with a Minister issuing the information but said it should not involve photographs or a public relations campaign around that Minister. It should be information that is issued. That was the commission's suggestion and I instructed all Ministers and Ministers of State to follow those guidelines in future.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Have any breaches of the legislation been reported since July 2003? Does the Government have any plans to review the disclosure levels and the spending limits as they now apply? Is the Taoiseach concerned about the most recently published information showing that a then serving Minister of State managed to be the recipient of donations equivalent to half of those received by the rest of the Members of the House? Is that good practice or does it need to be examined?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is moving away from the questions before us which deal exclusively with the code of conduct. We have moved well outside that.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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If the Ceann Comhairle says so.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No changes are envisaged to the limits or levels. I do not think there were any breaches of the code. There were a few issues concerning Ministers of State who used departmental letterheads wrongly. One Minister of State sent out 15 letters concerning an event and he had to pay back the money. I do not think there were any breaches of the terms of the code and no changes are envisaged.

The commission notified us that the next time we review the legislation, it would seek the inclusion of some amendments to make some sections of the Act clearer. That was with regard to advertising, if I recall correctly. Other than those mentioned by Deputy Kenny, there have been a number of issues to do with literature and people sending out letters on departmental stationery.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Taoiseach recall that in July of last year, the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, appeared in an advertisement for calf nuts in the Farming Independent? I am not suggesting for one moment that the Minister of State was paid for his participation in the advertisement but he indicated that he was involved to the benefit of a person whom he described as a good friend. With all due respect to the Minister of State, I am sure the Taoiseach would agree that it is questionable as to whether his photograph in the advertisement would have benefitted the sale of calf nuts in any event. Nonetheless, does the Taoiseach believe it is ethical for a Minister of State to participate in commercial advertising in this way? Has the code of conduct been re-examined as a result of this Minister of State's calf nuts exposure?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That issue was raised at the time and the code points out that Ministers should be careful how they promote any particular product, although it is very difficult to do that. If a politician goes to the launch of something and holds it in his or her hand, then——

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is all right as long as one does not eat the nuts.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That would definitely be bad for one's health. People must be careful but I am not too sure how, in political life, one can have a clear line on that issue. It is quite difficult.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I note from the Taoiseach's reply that he is fixed and quite narrow in regarding the code as having to do with the use of resources. Given the experiences of recent months, is he considering applying it to the behaviour of office holders, when it comes, for example, to the presumption of innocence? The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform provided a classic example when he tried to associate my colleague, Deputy Gormley, with an attack on the offices of the Progressive Democrats. Would that not count as a matter that is unacceptable? Does the Taoiseach regard the code of conduct as having to do with issues other than resources? Is that not an example of where the officeholder should have regard for the basic presumption of innocence?

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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That is an interesting dimension and a question that should be allowed. I would like to hear the answer to it.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Likewise, there is the case of the journalist whom the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform decided to defame, with no charges still brought to this day.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise out of this question. These questions deal with the code of conduct.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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If this is not to do with conduct, then what is?

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Yes.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy——

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I am only asking the question, I am not giving the answer.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Standards in Public Office Commission interprets the code of conduct. It decides——

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The question concerns the code of conduct.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The matters that have been raised have already been decided in the House. We could be here all day discussing individual items.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I will be finished in a second.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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These questions deal exclusively with whether there are plans to amend the code of conduct.

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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That is why I am raising these points. The code of conduct makes it clear that no decision regarding a private company is to be countenanced. Whatever the Taoiseach's difficulty with the fine line he describes, is there not a case to define exactly what no decision regarding a private company means? Is the action of the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Parlon, acceptable? If it is not, the code should be made more clear for the Minister of State who has an obvious difficulty with the fine line referred to by the Taoiseach.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The commission pointed out that the latter case was not clear from the code, but how does one make it clear?

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The code could include advertising.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not advisable because of cases where one could be used unintentionally in an advertisement. In the case of someone intentionally placing his or her photograph in an advertisement, the commission said that was something that should not be done.

The code of conduct does not stand in isolation. It is part of the wider framework of the Ethics in Public Office Act 1995 and the Standards in Public Office Act 2001. They must be read together and that is the point made by the commission. The code cannot impose new requirements that are not legislatively based. It can, however, be used by the commission as guidance to whenever a complaint is made under section 4 of the Act, which provides for complaints of a breach of ethics. The Standards in Public Office Commission oversees implementation of the Acts and guidelines and has specific statutory powers to investigate and make findings on failures of compliance with the Acts. The Acts are taken together and the code is admissible in any proceedings before a court, a tribunal or a committee of the House. The code, in its own right, indicates standards of conduct and integrity for officeholders where these are not expressly covered by legislation. It can be used against a Member.