John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Question 39: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the steps he intends to take on illegal Irish immigrants in the United States; if this matter was raised by members of the Government at the St. Patrick's Day celebrations in the White House; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13171/06]

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 40: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the contact being made with the US Administration on behalf of the undocumented Irish in the United States of America; the efforts being undertaken to urge support for key elements of the Kennedy-McCain Bill; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [13299/06]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 39 and 40 together.

The Government attaches the highest priority to the welfare of the undocumented Irish in the United States, and takes every opportunity in contacts with US political leaders to emphasise the importance of addressing the matter in a constructive and sympathetic way. As Deputies are aware, the debate in the US on immigration reform has entered a critical stage. The St. Patrick's Day period provided the Government with an especially timely opportunity to make known our views on this matter and, in particular, our strong support for the approach favoured by Senators Kennedy and McCain. It was an opportunity we availed of to the full in our meetings with President Bush, his Administration and key figures on Capitol Hill. President Bush was appreciative of our position and he helpfully reiterated to us his support for a broad approach which involves reform as well as enforcement, an approach he subsequently emphasised again in speeches later in the month.

The Taoiseach and I had a series of valuable meetings with members of Congress. In each of these meetings we gave particular prominence to our views on the issue of the undocumented Irish and the need to address the situation. We were particularly pleased to have the opportunity again to thank Senators Kennedy and McCain for their leadership on this issue. For their part they are warmly appreciative of the Government's support and that of the Oireachtas for their efforts.

The engagement of the Government is complemented most effectively by the significant mobilisation of the Irish community in the US on this issue. In this regard, the Taoiseach and I had a valuable discussion with Niall O'Dowd and Grant Lally of the Irish Lobby for Immigration Reform, ILIR. I commend the work of the ILIR which has had a significant impact on the debate in Washington and elsewhere in the US and whose work I have been pleased to support financially. We agreed to remain in close contact as the legislative process in Washington progresses.

Since our St. Patrick's Day visit, there has been a positive development with the passage through the Senate Judiciary Committee of a comprehensive immigration reform Bill which includes key elements of the approach favoured by Senators Kennedy and McCain. I consider this to be a significant development and warmly welcome it. However, it remains clear that reaching consensus on this sensitive and divisive issue presents US legislators with a formidable challenge. Consideration of this matter has moved to the floor of the full Senate where a debate began on Wednesday last, 29 March.

The Government will continue to monitor the ongoing debate closely and emphasise our strong support for the regularisation of the status of the undocumented Irish in the US. In this regard, I warmly welcome last week's visit of the Chairman and members of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs to Washington.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I thank the Minister for his reply. Have a substantial number of Republican Senators and members of the House of Representatives expressed concern about the idea of an amnesty for those they consider illegal? I know the Minister lobbied the President of the United States and certain Senators. Has the Minister lobbied those members of the Republican Party who appear to be recalcitrant? How effective was the lobbying campaign carried out by Niall O'Dowd and others? Is there a sense that the Minister is inhibited by his lobbying efforts from raising other important matters such as extraordinary renditions, Guantanamo Bay and the war in Iraq because he wants to deal with this issue in a comprehensive way and is trying to express his concerns about the undocumented Irish? Do these concerns inhibit the Minister from raising other issues?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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They do not. During our meeting with President Bush on St. Patrick's Day we spent more time discussing other issues than the undocumented Irish. We know the President's position on the undocumented Irish. I understand from our contacts that he was very helpful this week in trying to progress the debate positively. He clearly stated the Administration and Congress would not wear an amnesty. We are progressing to a situation where the lobby on behalf of the Kennedy-McCain legislation, which includes an element of providing people with an opportunity to have a path to what is termed permanent residency, has come from the Senate Judiciary Committee to the floor of the Senate. In recent days we had discussions with Senators Kennedy and McCain on its possibility of succeeding in the Senate.

A suggestion was made that I might travel there this week because it is approaching its final position. However, a judgment was made that the best time for me to travel, and I intend to do so if the need arises, is at the reconciliation stage, which is the term used when the Bill has already gone through Congress, of the Sensenbrenner Bill on border security. We had previous discussions on this issue.

What emerged from the Senate Judiciary Committee is not exactly the Kennedy McCain legislation. However, it is critical to get that legislation passed by the Senate so that it will go to the reconciliation stage. We lobbied many people on all sides. I reiterate my understanding that this week President Bush has been more than helpful in trying to steer some of the people in his party to a view that this matter should and could be dealt with. I exhorted the Irish representatives to form a proper group to lobby the public representatives, and we fund the resulting group. I did this because in the early stages of lobbying we heard that Irish people were not exactly hammering down the doors of the Congressmen and public representatives on this issue. The formation of the lobby group and the rally it held engendered other groups. A crowd of 500,000 congregated, mainly Hispanic people which has largely turned the tide.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister spoke about consensus and reconciliation and I agree almost totally with his analysis that the Senate faces a major task in addressing the report of the judiciary committee. I fear, however, that it may get through the Senate before the Easter recess but the House of Representatives will be the main stumbling block. I hope what emerges from the process will reflect the efforts of all sides of the political spectrum here and that it will be positive for the 40,000 or 50,000 Irish people in the United States.

A group from Fine Gael visited last year and the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs visited in June. I was a member of that group, and Deputy Michael Higgins was a member of the group that visited last week. The Minister and the Taoiseach were there for St. Patrick's Day.

The Minister's words of consensus and reconciliation are limited. On my return from the United States last Friday as I caught up with the news in the local papers I saw an article headed "My Fight for the Lost Irish in America", written by the Minister. The Minister argues that there should be all-party support for this valid cause but the political bile, hatred, nastiness, untruths and divisiveness displayed in that article did no credit to him, his Department or the cause we all serve. All parties in the House are united on this issue and supported a motion in favour of it. I ask the Minister to retract the untruths in that article which rubbished the efforts of the Opposition.

The Opposition may not have the expertise and back-up of the army of civil servants available to the Minister but we have gone to the United States at some personal cost and loss of time.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I will not retract anything in that article. I too am a political animal and I will portray my side on this issue.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is engaging in the politics of desperation.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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My record on the issue of undocumented Irish people, whether I have civil servants or not, is second to none.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Self-praise is no praise.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy refers to the reconciliation stage, as it is called, which covers reconciling the two Bills.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I know what it is all about.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I would be happy to go again to the United States, probably for the tenth time in 12 months, to lobby on this issue. I will not hide my light under any bushel in respect of the lobbying I and my party colleagues have done.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should not hide any other party's light.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Fine Gael is not the only one. I acknowledge that it is vital to have all-party approval on this matter and have given credit to the Deputy and his party leader in my speeches and discussions in America.

I will not withdraw anything in that article because I am a political animal and like anyone else will sell the point for which I and my party have been responsible.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister may be a political animal but there should be united purpose and the sort of rubbish that someone in the Department may have written and the Minister may not have seen——

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I saw it.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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It was ill-timed, ill-conceived and inappropriate. It has degraded the Minister and his Department.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Now that we have raised this issue, that article answers the effort——

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should be more magnanimous. We went to the United States last year at our own expense. We did not have a Government jet. We went at our own expense. I still have the receipts.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should have some manners.

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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It cost us several thousand euro. The Minister is a Johnny-come-lately. There was no word this time last year on that side of the House about the undocumented Irish.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should let me answer.

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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Deputies Connaughton, Ring, Coveney and McGinley went out there last year.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy allow me to answer?

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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We went at our own expense, not at the taxpayers' expense. We did not travel at the expense of Seán Citizen. We heard no word of the Minister there.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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When we were in Washington recently the Deputy and his party——

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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We were there last May.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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——and the Labour Party published a document which I answered regarding the incorrect direction which the two parties wish to take.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister spoke about political patronage which is untrue.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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They want to set up another quango which will not be responsible to this House.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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How many quangos has the Minister set up?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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It would cost approximately €1 million. The Department has already set up the Irish Abroad unit which is responsible to this House.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has changed the name of one body three times.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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This organisation disseminates much-needed money to groups in the United Kingdom and in America and elsewhere. Deputy Allen's party and the Labour Party proposed to spend some of that money setting up an independent quango which would not be responsible to this House. It was to that I referred.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is engaging in the politics of desperation. He is a disgrace.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Minister has indicated that he may go to the United States at the reconciliation stage. We need a reconciliation stage in this House before he goes. It might be a good idea if, instead of going on his own, he brought Members of all parties because after all he has recognised that all parties supported that motion in this House. Is he open to the idea of taking an all-party delegation to the United States?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I would have no problem with that, but there have been all-party delegations from the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Will the Minister do that?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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If the committee wishes to go again I would have no problem with that.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Does the Minister support that recommendation?

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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It would complement my efforts and those of my officials and the embassies.

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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We got on very well there last week. We made real progress on behalf of the 11 million people.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely. We encouraged the committee in that work.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is rewriting My Fight for Irish Freedom.

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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That was by Dan Breen, God rest him. He did something.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I did not know Deputy Allen was so sensitive. I am delighted to see that he reads our propaganda.

Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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It is propaganda.

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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It is black propaganda.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Michael Higgins was propagandising at the weekend. I was listening to some of the ráiméis that came out of him about benchmarking and the conscience of the people within this so-called arrangement. We noted that the leader of the Labour Party did not once mention Northern Ireland.

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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He did not do too badly.