Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Question 52: To ask the Minister for Transport if he has satisfied himself with the delay in the break-up of Aer Rianta; his views on whether this delay is hampering the development of the three State airports; if he will involve himself in the process to dispel the uncertainty with regard to the future financial position of these airports, particularly Cork and Shannon; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9569/06]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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All three airports showed record traffic last year with passenger numbers of 18.46 million at Dublin, 3.3 million at Shannon and 2.73 million at Cork. This represents growth of 8% at Dublin, of 38% at Shannon and close to 21% at Cork. The new boards for Shannon and Cork, in conjunction with the DAA, are bringing a new impetus to developing and growing their airports.

The State Airports Act 2004 provides for the establishment of the three State airports at Dublin, Shannon and Cork as fully independent and autonomous authorities under State ownership. The Act provides a framework to allow for an orderly approach to the distribution of the assets of Shannon and Cork Airports in conformity with the capital maintenance and other provisions of the companies Acts. New boards were appointed at all three airports in 2004. The boards of Cork and Shannon airports are now charged with making preparations to assume responsibility for the ownership and development of the airports. They are also empowered to undertake certain management and operational functions on an agreed basis with Dublin Airport Authority during the interim period.

Under the Act, before any assets can transfer to either the Shannon or Cork Airport authorities, the Minister for Finance and I must be satisfied as to the financial and operational readiness of the airport authorities. Accordingly, each authority is required to prepare a comprehensive business plan and obtain our approval for these plans before any assets can be transferred.

The three State airport authorities are continuing to work on the preparation of their business plans with the Dublin Airport Authority, DAA, co-ordinating the process. In this context a range of issues needs to be carefully considered. These include the unsustainable cost base at Shannon Airport, the recent airport charges determination for Dublin Airport by the Commission for Aviation Regulation and the optimum mechanisms for the financing of the new terminal in Cork. These are complex issues that the airport authorities must consider carefully and as I have indicated previously, I have not imposed any artificial deadlines for the completion of this process. My Department will continue to liaise with the DAA on the business planning timetable taking account of the key issues I have mentioned.

At the appropriate time I look forward to the finalisation of the business planning process because of its importance to facilitating the development of dynamic, independent and financially sustainable State airports. The Government objective of airport restructuring must be achieved in a manner which underpins the financial sustainability of all three State airports.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Every time this issue arises, the Minister maintains it is a complex problem and that he will not impose deadlines. The Minister cannot continue indefinitely to stand back from the issue. He must get involved with the financial issue of Cork Airport and make good his promise to ensure it can incorporate debt-free. That promise was given and must be fulfilled. Cork Airport must be allowed to set up on its own without the debt — currently an unknown level of debt — hanging over it. It must also be made clear from the point of view of Dublin Airport.

The Minister consistently says he will not get involved and will stand back. That is not good enough. The stalling is causing major problems for Dublin and Cork airports. Neither can prepare any kind of realistic plan. Cork Airport does not know whether it will have to carry the debt of €160 million, which I now understand may be closer to €200 million. Neither does Dublin Airport know if it will have to carry the debt. Both airports are facing an open skies policy in the very near future where they will not compete with each other but with the largest airports in Europe. All the main airports in Europe will be in competition for the new long-haul business likely to emerge, particularly from the United States. Dublin and Cork airports must be in a position to meet that challenge of competition and to exploit the opportunities it will offer.

At the time of the passing of the Bill two years ago, a political promise was given, and a political solution must be found to ensure the promise is fulfilled, so that Cork Airport can be set up as a stand-alone company entirely debt-free with some chance of survival. The Minister says that under company law this cannot be done, otherwise there are no assets to distribute. A report from the board of the Great Southern Hotels said the hotels should be sold and the Minister seemed to accept that was possible. Surely Cork Airport would be entitled to some part of the proceeds of the hotel group sale, on distribution? Is that a possible solution? Has the Minister a solution? Will he stand back indefinitely, let time go by and hope we will all forget about it?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am not for one minute being passive, which the Deputy knows. As I stated in my response, my objective — the only one any government can have — is to ensure the three State airports are placed on a financially sound footing.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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When?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am not sure if Deputy Mitchell is speaking for a group of Cork Deputies or if she is putting forward the Fine Gael party position when she suggests all of the debt from Cork Airport should be loaded on to the passengers at Dublin Airport.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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That is not my solution.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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That seems to be the Fine Gael position.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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There are assets to distribute. The Minister must fulfil his promise. His party gave a commitment. Will he fulfil it?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I am in exactly the same space. I suggested to Deputies Shortall and Mitchell on a previous occasion that they read precisely what was said by the former Minister for Transport in this House when he introduced the State Airports Act in 2004. One of the key points he made was that to advance the rapid independence of Cork Airport, a leasing arrangement on at least some of the debt would have to be agreed with Dublin Airport. I did not say that — I am not quoting myself. That has been the position for several years.

If Cork Airport wants to wait, that is outside any political consideration, irrespective of who stands in my position. If that airport wants to be entirely debt-free, under the companies Acts, where the distributed reserves must be sufficient at Dublin Airport to distribute the Cork debt — which as I publicly stated will probably involve €200 million — that will take time to achieve. We should also bear in mind that Dublin Airport Authority is now embarking on an investment programme of at least €1.3 billion for Dublin Airport, which is essential for the development of this country. I do not know where the Deputies think the assets will come from to cater for all that, and for the borrowings——

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Minister should ask the former Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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——-and to separate out Cork Airport, sort out Shannon Airport, the pension funds and other issues.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Where were those funds going to come from when the Minister made his promise?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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It is not a simple issue.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister comes here every week saying the issue is complex and he will not set deadlines.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Clear as mud.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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There is nobody who would like more than I to see the three airports agreeing the way forward.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Cullen is the Minister for Transport.

Pat Carey (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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We are well over time and must move on.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The position being adopted by the Deputies is that an entirely new Cork Airport should be debt-free and that its debt should be absorbed by the Dublin Airport Authority, meaning that the passengers using the capital city must pay for Cork Airport. The Commissioner for Aviation Regulation will not allow the charging regime at Dublin Airport to operate in a way——

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister suggesting that as a solution? I certainly am not.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Not for one minute.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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There are assets to be distributed and the Minister will not make up his mind how they can be distributed. He will not make a decision about anything.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Would Fine Gael and the Labour party for once be a bit honest——

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Cullen is the Minister for Transport. He is the one who says it is a complex problem, that he will not become involved, that he will not set deadlines, that he must stand back. The Minister should make a decision.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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That bleating will not achieve anything for the benefit of Cork Airport or anywhere else. I wish this situation could be resolved.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is in charge.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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We both know the assets available to the Dublin Airport Authority are not sufficient to leave all these elements debt-free.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I do not know that.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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That is a statement of fact.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Did the former Minister, Deputy Séamus Brennan, not know that?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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We told him.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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He said that himself in the Dáil during the debate on Second Stage.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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What happened to the deadline of April 2005?