Dáil debates
Wednesday, 14 December 2005
Priority Questions.
Decentralisation Programme.
1:00 pm
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 38: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs the number of senior development staff volunteering to decentralise with Development Co-operation Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [39435/05]
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Under the Government's decentralisation programme, the development co-operation directorate of the Department of Foreign Affairs, currently based in Dublin, is scheduled to decentralise to Limerick in the first quarter of 2007. There are 123 posts attached to the directorate at headquarters, of which 24 are specialist posts, with three of these being designated as principal development specialists. No applications through the central applications facility, CAF, have been received for these three posts so far.
On the other hand, a combined total of eight senior development specialists and development specialists currently serving in the directorate have applied through the CAF for the 21 posts at these levels which are being decentralised to Limerick. In addition, four development specialists have been recruited since the announcement of the decentralisation programme.
In summary, therefore, arrangements are in place to fill 12 of the 24 specialist posts. It would be my hope that a greater number of specialists will volunteer to decentralise to Limerick as the date for the decentralisation of the directorate draws nearer.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister said that the date for decentralisation is drawing near, but has a property been identified yet to house Development Co-operation Ireland, DCI? How does the Minister propose to deal with staff who will not transfer to Limerick and where will they be accommodated within the service? Does the Minister agree that in view of the substantial increase in overseas development aid, there is a serious danger of the intellectual memory of DCI being fatally damaged by this ill-planned decentralisation fiasco? Have any more senior specialists indicated their willingness to move since the Minister's junior colleague last dealt with these questions approximately a month ago?
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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There has been some media comment about the issue of the DCD transferring or decentralising to Limerick. Unfortunately, the references in the media are incorrect. The number of people wishing to decentralise is much higher than was reported. Some 46 people from within the Department——
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Within the Department, but not DCI.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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That is a different matter.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, from within the Department, but——
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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My question concerned staff from within DCI.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Many people within the Department have served abroad on overseas development aid issues. Out of 123 posts to be decentralised, however, 28 so far in the directorate, including that of the director general himself, are being filled by people who wish to decentralise. A further 18 officers serving elsewhere in the Department, mostly abroad on aid missions, have also expressed an interest in going to Limerick. A further 18 will join the directorate from other Departments via the CAF in January and February.
There has been a great deal of nonsense about this and I am surprised that someone like the Deputy, who is from outside Dublin, would be against decentralisation.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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I am not against decentralisation. That is misrepresentation.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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That is typical of the Deputy's party.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister cannot answer the question.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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He says one thing up here, but when he goes back home to Cork, he says something different.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister answer the question?
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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At a recent conference in Dublin——
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Does he even have a property?
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Does he have a property?
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Minister without interruption.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should answer the question.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Has it been purchased?
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Has it been leased?
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Yes. They are in negotiations with the people involved.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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It has not been leased. The Minister knows that.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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We now have an identifiable property.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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It has not been leased.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Now that we have the property, many more people will be willing to relocate to Limerick. The concept of DCI or the DCD going to Limerick is important. At a conference in Dublin some months ago, Mr. Richard Manning, who was the chair of the development assistance committee of the OECD, was asked this very question as to his attitude to the proposal to decentralise to Limerick. His reply was very interesting.
He said, regarding decentralisation, that he was reluctant to get involved in a local issue. However, he wished to relate a story from the UK. In 1991, his organisation had set up an office in Bangladesh to run its programme there. To make it financially possible — he was the director for Asia at the time — he moved all staff in London who dealt with Bangladesh to that country. Parliamentary questions regarding the Bangladesh programme were dealt with by the unit in Dhaka, and it worked very well.
He went on to say that he personally believed that with modern technology and plenty of coming and going, almost any situation was possible. He said that what we faced in Ireland was a transitional problem of how we wanted to get there. There was clearly an issue for staff used to living in a particular part of the country who did not want to move. They had the same problem in the UK when they set up an office in Scotland.
Deputy Allen wants me to stop, but the truth is sometimes bitter.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Not at all. The Minister is filibustering now.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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He thought that we needed to distinguish the very real problems and need for flexibility in the short term from the ability of any country to set up a world-class office anywhere at once these days.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is obviously filibustering. I asked specific questions.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Of the seven senior specialist positions in DCI at present, how many people have indicated that they would like to be decentralised to Limerick? Will the Minister agree that no property has been bought or leased in the area for decentralisation?
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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No, the Deputy is wrong. I am not aware of whether the money has been transferred, but it has identified, and to all intents and purposes acquired, a property.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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Has the Minister had any recent discussions with non-governmental organisations regarding this fiasco? Will he publish the most recent risk assessment conducted of decentralisation? The Minister should not use the trick of pretending that I am against decentralisation. I am in favour or well thought-out and well planned decentralisation, but the madcap idea that he has presented to us regarding DCI is totally unacceptable and will severely damage the delivery and effectiveness of the overseas development aid programme.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I recall the famous case of Knock Airport, completely opposed by Deputy Allen's party, which said that it was on top of a boggy mountain. Today it is a great success, and they must answer to the people of Knock in that regard.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should answer the question put to him.
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Let us proceed to Question No. 39.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I believe that no one is indispensable, and it is possible to run an organisation——
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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How many of the seven specialists——
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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——in Limerick, just as it is in Dublin.
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Let us proceed to Question No. 39.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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That is where the Deputy and I differ. It is the case that, regarding the senior management team, none of the existing people has applied. However, there are ten principal officers from elsewhere in the public and Civil Service who are willing, meaning that there is plenty of scope. This will probably be one of the success stories, since we have now acquired a building, and a high proportion of people are interested in going to Limerick.
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Let us proceed to Question No. 39.
Bernard Allen (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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What about the risk assessment report? Has an up-to-date survey been conducted?
Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Chair has called Question No. 39.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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That is also an issue on which I will get back to the Deputy. I am not aware of that.