Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Question 56: To ask the Minister for Defence the situation regarding the decentralisation of the civilian staff at the Department of Defence; the number of persons who will move; the number who have indicated that they wish to move; if a suitable site has been obtained; and if so, the location and cost of same; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [38130/05]

Tom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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The Government decision on decentralisation announced by the Minister for Finance in his Budget Statement on 3 December 2003 provides for the transfer of my Department's Dublin-based Civil Service staff to Newbridge, County Kildare. The number of staff to be relocated to Newbridge is 202.

While the Office of Public Works has identified a suitable site in Newbridge for the Department's new headquarters, negotiations on the acquisition of the site have not yet been completed. For this reason, it is not possible to give a firm date or cost for the move. Every effort is being made to expedite the process. Some 385 personnel, 60 of whom are currently serving in the Department, have volunteered to relocate to Newbridge.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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How many Dublin-based civil servants wish to relocate to Newbridge? I fundamentally disagree with the principle of moving Department headquarters around the country. The Department of Defence is not moving too far but if it is looking for a site in Newbridge, it will prove quite expensive. Recently someone told me of a small property in Newbridge which sold for an outrageous sum. A few miles from Newbridge, there are thousands of acres in the Curragh. The Minister for Finance is moving the Army headquarters to the Curragh, yet he is moving the Department of Defence to Newbridge. Regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with the move, I do not understand the logic of this. If the Minister wants to undertake this move in a practical, pragmatic and cost effective manner, the Department should move from Newbridge to the Curragh along with the Army headquarters.

Tom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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Some 385 personnel, of whom 60 are currently serving in the Department, have volunteered to relocate to Newbridge. The acquisition of a site is the constraint most likely to delay the relocation of the Department. The Office of Public Works is making every effort on behalf of the Minister to achieve a successful outcome. Discussions are ongoing between the Office of Public Works and Kildare County Council regarding the site. The move of Coiste An Asgard will coincide with the Department's move to Newbridge and the Defence Forces headquarters will be relocated to the Curragh. As relocation to Newbridge is very much oversubscribed in comparison with other Departments, there will be no difficulty getting people to transfer and I hope it will be a successful move.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister agree the purchase of a site in Newbridge is holding back the move? The site will cost a phenomenal sum of money yet literally two miles down the road is the Curragh training camp where the Department has thousands of acres and fantastic access. I do not understand the logic of the move to Newbridge, irrespective of whether one agrees or disagrees with decentralisation. If the Department locates in Newbridge, a site will have to be sourced at a huge fee but if it locates down the road in the Curragh camp, thousands of acres are available. Will the Minister of State ask the Minister to consider this suggestion?

Tom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I will be happy to raise the Deputy's views with the Minister. However, the Office of Public Works has shown considerable expertise in trying to identify sites for headquarters. There is a logical explanation for proceeding with this site. However, I will ask the Minister to keep the Deputy informed in this regard.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Minister of State may not be able to respond to the following question but if he could, I would appreciate it. As regards members of the Defence Forces living in married quarters in barracks, there is a serious case in my constituency where people have been put on to the side of the road. They have been asked to vacate——

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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That is a separate question.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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If we are asking large numbers of people to move, is the wrong signal being sent if those who have served us so well, as the Minister of State rightly said in a previous reply to me, are being dumped on to the side of the road in this way?

Tom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I will be happy to pursue the point the Deputy just made. I agree this must be done in a co-ordinated way. Some 20 members of staff from the Department's Dublin offices wish to decentralise to other locations. These staff will be facilitated as soon as possible when requested for transfers by other Departments. Over the next six months, vacancies arising in this way will be filled. The Department will proceed to transfer staff and fill vacancies according to protocols in a phased way taking account of our business priorities and service delivery needs.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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There is another aspect to the numbers the Minister of State gave us, that is, who wishes to decentralise. I received a reply to a parliamentary question on 2 November on the risk assessment done by the Department and in which it was very forthcoming on issues such as loss of corporate memory, loss of key staff to execute tasks contained in the plan, corporate isolation and possible loss of high performance culture. Is the Minister satisfied the people who are to decentralise will satisfy the risk analysis done?

There is a big difference between the Curragh and Newbridge. One difference is that there is a train line to Newbridge which may well be an attractive proposition to people relocating. We should not lose sight of those aspects of decentralisation.

Tom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I agree with the Deputy that corporate memory and experience and personnel family matters are vital issues in the context of the relocation of people. The approach of this process of decentralisation is that it is done on a voluntary basis. I agree with the Deputy in regard to the train line. We have seen the plans under Transport 21 and it is a very attractive incentive for people to move to places like Newbridge. Good transport facilities are vital and will be a great incentive for people to move to some of the locations. Given the problems on the M50, people would be glad to move to places to which there is greater access transport-wise for all members of the family. This must be done on a voluntary basis and in consultation with those involved. Consideration must also be taken of people's family situations.