Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 4: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the number of applicants seeking local authority housing in the assessment of housing needs which was carried out earlier in 2005; the number seeking each other form of social housing, including Traveller accommodation, shared ownership scheme, voluntary housing and so on; the number of applicants seeking all forms of social or local authority housing; the changes which have been made in the method of compiling the 2005 assessment; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [36761/05]

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The assessment of housing need is statutorily required to be carried out every three years. The last full assessment was commenced by local authorities in early 2005 on the basis of detailed guidance provided by the Department.

A number of important new elements were introduced for the 2005 assessment. In particular, a computer based system was established to receive and analyse the data; and individual PPS numbers have been collected for all applicants. This will prevent multiple counting of the same applicant in the census of need, without prejudice to the continued right of persons to seek housing in different local authority areas.

Assessments were initiated by local authorities contacting all existing applicants on their waiting lists and making it known locally, usually through the media, that an assessment of housing need was being undertaken. Local authorities were required to contact any health board operating in or adjoining their area. In addition they will have contacted voluntary and non-profit making organisations engaged locally in the provision of housing accommodation and other such bodies.

It is a matter for individual authorities to determine whether persons comply with the statutory requirements to be accepted for inclusion in the assessments under section 9 of the Housing Act 1988 and section 6 of the Housing Act 1998. An authority may, to assist it in arriving at a decision, have regard to reports from health boards and other agencies or authorities. Section 9 provides that persons may be included in an assessment only where they are in need of accommodation, unable to provide it from their own resources and require long-term accommodation from the authority. I expect to publish detailed tables, including a breakdown of categories of need, in respect of all local authorities in the next few weeks.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I did not ask the Minister of State that question at all. He has just told us how the assessment was conducted.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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He is the same as the previous Minister.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I want to know what the result is.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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He is a Walter Mitty.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I want to know the number of people who were assessed in the assessment of housing need carried out nine months ago. Surely it does not take the Minister of State with his abacus nine months to count the number of people who are on the housing list, especially since he says he now has a computer to assist him doing it.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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There are 2,500 on the list in Galway.

Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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The warehouse is full of computers.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Tabling a parliamentary question is a serious matter. We are entitled to get the answers to the questions we table. My question is how many applicants seek local authority housing, how many look for other forms of social housing and what is the gross total? The Minister of State has that information and he is withholding it from the House.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I answered the Deputy's question in the last sentence——

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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Spit it out.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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——when I said I do not, as yet, have the file of the final figures.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not believe that. I do not believe that the Minister of State with responsibility for housing does not have the information that was compiled by local authorities.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It is impossible. Perhaps he cannot add them up.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Nine months later the Minister of State tells the House he does not know the figures.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Would the Deputy like a reply?

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Yes, I would. Perhaps the Minister of State will give the House the numbers.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I am sorry the Deputy does not believe me, but I am telling the truth.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not believe the Minister of State.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I am telling the truth. I am sorry for his trouble, but the situation is that there is a good deal of collating and cross checking of figures.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Minister of State should stop that old guff and give the House the figures.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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The situation is that there were many discrepancies and different interpretations among local authorities and the final data have not, as yet, been presented to me.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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This is an insulting answer to Dáil Éireann. This is a matter of simple addition. Any of the children in the Visitors Gallery would have done it long ago. Nine months ago the local authorities sent data on the numbers of people applying for housing to the Minister of State's Department.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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He cannot add them up.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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There are only 40 housing authorities or thereabouts. It is not a difficult sum. What is the total number of applicants? The Minister of State should not take us for fools. He has that information and he is withholding it from the House. Give the House the information. I have asked the Minister of State for the number of applicants for local authority and other forms of social housing and the gross total. He should spit it out and tell the House what he knows.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I know what the Deputy has asked and I would like to facilitate him and give an accurate figure, but I cannot. While the assessments started last spring, it was September before some of the first figures were received from local authorities. Much work has been done since then with very detailed cross checking to ensure consistency of approach. That is one of the matters we are trying to achieve. At this stage we are fairly close to the final figure and I hope to have it out to the Deputy within the next few weeks.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Minister of State is incompetent and useless. Not only can he not manage and provide housing for the people on the housing list, he cannot even count the number of applicants.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I know the Deputy has been looking into his crystal ball and coming up with figures such as 60,000, and I do not know where he got that.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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These are the figures.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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The Minister of State, without interruption.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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What about the figures?

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have them. It is a case of doing it accurately. We are getting a computer based system which will improve things in the future.

We found many people who were on more than one local authority. The previous figures may have had much duplication and so on. While many new applicants have gone on the list, one compensates the other. It might not be at the level that you were forecasting, but I cannot give you the final figure. It will not be at 60,000.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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You are doctoring the figures.

Noel Ahern (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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We are cross-checking the figures for accuracy. I reject that implication. I do not know why I should take more insults from you. I have given you an accurate answer based——

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Both the Minister of State and the Deputy must address the Chair.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On a point of order, this Minister of State told us a few minutes ago that he did know the figure. He has now just told us that it will not be 60,000. If he is confident about what it will not be, then he knows what it is but will not tell us.