Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Question 48: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on whether the current level of gangland crime is acceptable; the measures he proposes to take to tackle the growing problem of assassinations, killings and violent crime here; and if he expects the problem will be solved. [35801/05]

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Question 49: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of murders recorded to date in 2005 in which firearms were used; the number of these which are believed by the Garda Síochána to be related to the operation of criminal gangs; if he shares the views of the public regarding the huge increase in such killings; his views on whether the operation of these gangs exposes law abiding citizens to unnecessary danger to life and limb; his further views on whether his remarks in October 2004 regarding the last sting of the dying wasp were ill-advised; if the new special unit set up by the Commissioner is properly resourced; the steps he intends to take to deal with the operation of criminal gangs; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [35949/05]

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 48 and 49 together.

The questions asked by the Deputies arise in the immediate aftermath of the brutal killing of two people in Firhouse and the equally callous killing of another man in Clontarf in the past two weeks. Both these incidents are being fully investigated by the Garda Síochána and I am sure the House will appreciate that I have to be careful about revealing specific details of the incidents and the intensive investigations that are ongoing in order not to prejudice future prosecutions. I can say, however, that all the indications are that these killings formed part of a vicious feud between two groups who are struggling to control drug distribution in areas of Dublin. The harsh reality is that these people deal in death and will kill to protect their patch and to recover their debts. However, we have to be clear that murder is unacceptable and, regardless of motive, the Garda Síochána is determined to do all in its power to bring the perpetrators of these and other similar offences to justice.

I am informed by the Garda authorities that the number of murders recorded to date in 2005 in which firearms were used is 19. While the term "gangland killings" tends to be widely used in the media in referring to the nature of certain unlawful killings, this does not correspond to the manner in which the Garda Síochána classifies crime or particular offences.

The Garda Síochána is now better resourced than at any time in its history. I am very pleased the Government has approved my proposals for the funding of a 14-point anti-crime programme during 2006. A record €1,290 million is being provided to underpin the work of the Garda Síochána. This represents an increase of €146 million or 13% when compared to 2005, or an increase of 115% when compared to the 1997 provision of €600 million. This increased funding will provide, inter alia, for additional Garda overtime, the continuation and extension of Operation Anvil, which is focused on the prevention of serious crime and which has already proven to be successful, and the purchase of a fleet of specially adapted high visibility and high powered Garda vehicles.

The House will be aware that in October 2004 the Government approved my proposal to increase the strength of the Garda Síochána to a record 14,000 in line with the commitment in An Agreed Programme for Government in this regard. The ongoing recruitment campaign will lead to a combined strength, of attested gardaí and recruits in training, of 14,000 by the end of 2006, 13 months from now.

The Garda Síochána employs a range of techniques in the fight against serious crime. The national bureau of criminal investigation is the Garda specialist unit tasked with the role of tackling organised crime and it carries out this role by conducting intelligence driven operations in close co-operation with other specialist units, specifically, the national criminal intelligence unit, the Garda national drugs unit, the Garda bureau of fraud investigation and the Criminal Assets Bureau.

The House will be aware that, as a specific response some months ago to the problem of gun crime in Dublin, the Government decided to provide funding for Operation Anvil. This operation was undertaken, not as the sole response to this problem, but as a targeted response to augment the work which the Garda was doing day in and day out to address this problem. This intelligence-led policing initiative targets active criminals and their associates involved in serious crime by preventing and disrupting criminal activity through extensive additional overt patrolling, static checkpoints, uniformed mobile and foot patrols supported by armed plain clothes patrols and covert operations.

Operation Anvil has led to a number of very positive outcomes to date. It has led, for example, to seven arrests for murder, 221 arrests for serious assault and the seizure of 210 firearms. I agreed with the Garda Commissioner in the context of the additional budgetary provision, to which I have alluded, to the continuation of Operation Anvil and to its geographical extension.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

It is, of course, important that the Garda Síochána keeps under review its response to emerging developments and I assure the House that I have been in constant contact with the Garda Commissioner in regard to this matter. In this context, the House will be aware that last week the Garda Commissioner announced he has arranged for the allocation of an additional 50 officers to the national bureau of criminal investigation to a unit to be headed by a detective chief superintendent to augment the effort to target groups involved in organised crime in the Dublin metropolitan region. The unit will, of course, work closely with the gardaí deployed on Operation Anvil and with other specialist units. I am sure the House will welcome this development and continue to support the efforts of the Garda Síochána to deal with the challenges it faces.

It is widely acknowledged that our legislative package for tackling serious and organised crime is one of the toughest in Europe. The Government has been and remains determined to give the Garda the legislative resources necessary to do its job, not least in the Criminal Justice Bill which is before the House and which will significantly assist the Garda, particularly in the area of gun crime.

Moreover, the Government has approved my proposals for further amendments to the Bill, to provide, inter alia, for criminal offences in regard to participation in organised crime, to strengthen existing provisions relating to the ten-year mandatory minimum sentence for drug trafficking and to amend the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2000.

I assure the House that I am in regular contact with the Garda Commissioner to keep the measures and resources for tackling serious crime under continuing review. I am confident these measures will lead to an improvement in the situation in the fight against crime in general and in particular the fight against gangland and organised crime.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The first and most serious question that arises is whether the Minister accepts we have a major problem with gangland crime. Everything else flows from that. We have a very serious problem and all the figures point to that. There were 75 murders with guns between 1998 and 2004. Of those 75 murders only 53 convictions have been secured. That indicates a very serious problem. Things are even worse if one compares the fact that in 1998 there were only four murders with guns and the figure went up to 20 in 2003. As the Minister stated, there have been 19 murders with guns already this year. Does he accept that measures are necessary at two ends, one from the point of view of the Garda?

I am glad a suggestion I have made a number of times about having a gangland crime unit has been taken on board. That will be a help. The Minister's hands are tied to a degree because regardless of the statistical gymnastics that goes on, the gardaí simply are not there. According to a reply to a question last week, there are 12,309 gardaí. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, stated last week that there will not be 14,000 gardaí until 2008. That will not solve the current problem in Firhouse, Clontarf and elsewhere. Can anything further be done with the resources that are available at present?

Second, the proposed Criminal Justice Bill is trundling on with a series of add-ons. It is a long-playing record at this stage. It was circulated a year and a half ago and we have had several announcements of new additions to it. I am interested in one provision, making membership of an armed gang a criminal offence. Could that be abstracted out and put through the Dáil straight away? I can guarantee the support of Fine Gael for such a proposal. With the low rate of convictions it is clear that many of the people committing these murders are still on the streets but if the necessary proof were there to secure a conviction under the provision to which I referred, these people could be taken out of circulation.

I suggest very strongly to the Minister that, rather than having this saga of the Criminal Justice Bill continue, we put in place this provision and start taking these people off the streets on the basis of offences for which they can be convicted? We have not even had the Minister's amendments yet. The Bill has already rolled on for a year and a half and even with the best of co-operation from the Opposition it will not be law for some time to come.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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In answer to the Deputy's first question, I believe it is a serious problem. I do not minimise the threat from this violence between these gang members on each other because, inevitably, if it continues somebody other than the intended victims of shootings will become involved. On the Deputy's suggestion that we should break out provisions of the Criminal Justice Bill and move with them separately, all of the provisions of the Criminal Justice Bill without exception are important, such as the power to preserve scenes and extend the detention of people. It is not a matter of bringing forward one or two key sections. In any event, as the Deputy well knows, those sections cannot operate with retrospective effect. Criminal law only operates prospectively.

The Deputy mentioned Garda numbers. I will reiterate for the Deputy's benefit that the numbers in the Garda Síochána are increasing and will reach 14,000 by December 2006.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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About time. That was the commitment.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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A good deal of scepticism was expressed on this. The numbers are increasing. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, referred to the number of people who will have completed their two-year training by 2008.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Half of these were——

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The number of gardaí involved in the activities of the force and its organisational strength will reach 14,000 in December 2006.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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That codology is getting——

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I also make clear to the Deputies opposite that the number of gardaí fell when their parties were last in office. This point must be made constantly because some people are prepared to talk about what I am doing as if it is not enough——

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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It is not what the Minister is doing it is what he talks about doing.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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——when their record was to run down the strength of the Garda Síochána when they were in office.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Come on and get on with it. Deal with the problem.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Deputy O'Keeffe does not like me dealing with the fact——

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister's colleague, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, has put him in a box on Garda numbers.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy was first made Fine Gael spokesman on justice in 1978——

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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It was not what I stated, it is what the Minister's colleague——

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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——and neither the Labour Party nor Fine Gael——

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Deal with the problem.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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——offered a single extra garda in the previous general election and they derided those parties which stated they would increase the strength of the force.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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And did not keep their promise.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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And have kept their promise.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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They did not keep their promise and the Minister knows it. He should deal with the issue.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If the Deputy keeps contradicting me on this, I will stick out this argument because the record shows that I am telling the truth and he is bluffing and blustering as always.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is the only one. Everyone is out of step except our Michael. He even contradicts his own Minister for Finance.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy may want to be disruptive but the facts are that the numbers in the Garda Síochána have increased from 10,800 when the Deputy's party left office, and it had fallen at that stage from when his party had taken office, to more than 12,300 now and it will be 14,000 in December 2006, which is 13 months away.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should tell his colleague about that.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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That is me delivering on my commitments. These are commitments the Deputy's party never made to the electorate and which it derided when they were made.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I would like to get in.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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We do not make and break promises like the Minister and his colleagues.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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It is difficult to get in when the Minister is in full flight. He asked us to consider his track record. We will certainly do that. The 2,000 gardaí have not arrived and the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, who holds the purse strings, stated they will not arrive until 2008.

We will consider the Minister's track record on gangland killings, which is the focus of this question. Only 12 months ago, the Minister delivered the famous line that it was the dying sting of the wasp. We have had a threefold increase in killings in the past 12 months. Obviously there is no track record there. We are getting worse rather than improving.

Does the Minister accept that all this crime is fuelled by the fact that drugs are rampant and rife throughout the country because vast profits can be made, and feuding parties exist to defend patches because they are so valuable? We have young millionaires prepared to pay any price to ensure their line of supply is maintained. That is what is happening. It is a simple problem and the Minister has not recognised it yet. The people in question must be put out of business. They have increased threefold the number of killings they commit.

Will the Minister tell the House what level of resources this new unit of 50 gardaí will have, given the Garda Commissioner stated it takes 5.2 gardaí to do a 24-hour shift? How many gangs will it be able to put under surveillance? How will the Minister ensure the conviction rate increases from 12% to the 85% rate for the same type of crime in Los Angeles, California? This is a crime that can be dealt with. It is the Minister who is not dealing with it.

What the Minister produced yesterday is a relaunch and reheating of proposals he launched five or six times already during the past 18 months to two years. We want action. Will the Minister convince the House that he means business this time, that he is not merely paying lip-service, talking or articulating because it sounds good, and that he will deliver for the first time on these critical issues?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I do mean business and I will count on the Opposition parties to assist me——

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Minister has always had our support.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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——to put this legislation through the House as quickly as possible. I count on that support and I am grateful to the Deputies opposite for offering it.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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That is not the answer.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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If we are to consider the record of this Government in the fight against crime, especially during my tenure as Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the Garda Síochána has never been more heavily resourced than it is now. The process of reorganising the Garda Síochána is well advanced and will be implemented in the first six months of next year. This process of radical reformation of the force and the introduction of new management structures was postponed by successive Administrations in this House. The Labour Party promised twice it would re-constitute the Garda Síochána. It held office for ten years and did nothing about it.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Labour Party never held the Ministry with responsibility for justice.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I read an historical document recently, the Fine Gael manifesto from the early 1980s——

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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If we had had that Ministry, it would be different.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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——which stated it would do it then. That party was in office after that period for ten years and did nothing to advance that agenda. I will not take lectures from the parties that let down the Garda Síochána over the years on the proper execution of criminal matters.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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What about the communications network? How can gardaí mount surveillance——

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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We have gone over time on this. Last week the Chair was criticised for allowing Members to go over the time because it deprived other Members of putting their questions.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Is it possible to ask a supplementary question?

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Deputy asked a supplementary question.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I asked one question and it is a serious issue.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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We have now spent ten minutes on this.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The rest of the time was allowed to the Minister. May I be permitted to ask one further supplementary question?

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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A very brief question.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Contrary to what the Minister stated on numbers, in his speech on the Estimates, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Cowen, confirmed that the Garda figure at the end of 2006 will be less than 13,000 and that the figure of 14,000 cannot be reached in the lifetime of this Government and will not be reached until 2008. In that situation, and I ask the Minister to get real, can better support be provided for the limited number of gardaí we have in terms of replacing their 20 year old walkie talkies, providing them with individual anti-stab vests and other better equipment?

I take the point about all the 25 or 40 important issues that now emerge from the Criminal Justice Bill. Will the Minister give serious consideration to expediting the priority items and let us get that part of the Bill through? He will have full co-operation from the Opposition parties.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Deputy Costello may ask a brief question and the Minister will make a final brief reply.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I have not asked any supplementary questions so far. On a different issue from those raised so far, the question of telecommunications and secure communications for the Garda, we have been promised the digital Tetra system. We still operate on the analogue system. Proper surveillance cannot be mounted without a secure system. The Garda Síochána does not have that. Many gardaí still use their own mobile phones. It is a scandal that in this day and age the Garda Síochána does not have the best in modern technology. Now that three and a half years have passed, the Minister may only have six months left in office. Will he convince us that before he leaves office he will provide proper telecommunications? I do not see anything in the Estimates to do that.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I am glad to tell both Deputies that after many years of neglect, the Garda Síochána is getting a digital radio system in 2006.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Mañana.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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It is about time.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Every time I start to answer a question Opposition Deputies start shouting.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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When will this happen?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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In January 2006 the tenders will be out and the programme will be rolled out by mid-summer 2006.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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When will it be in place?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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The extension of the Garda digital radio network will commence in mid-2006.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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How long will it take to roll it out?

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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I am telling the Deputy it is happening. All this was neglected for years and the 20 year old sets we hear about survived two periods of the Labour Party in Government, when nothing was done on the matter.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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The sets were purchased when I was in Government.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Progressive Democrats and Fianna Fáil never gave the Garda Síochána adequate resources.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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It is happening while I am Minister.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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I will believe it when I see it.

Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Doubting Thomas.

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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By your fruits you will be known, not by your promises, headlines and media manipulation.