Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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Question 90: To ask the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the exploration licences to oil and gas companies that have been awarded in the recent past; the licences he is awarding at present; the licences he intends to award in the future; the number and location of these licences; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34532/05]

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Details of current licences, including those recently awarded, are contained in two reports published by my Department. The first of these is the six monthly report on licensing presented to the Dáil under section 57 of the Petroleum and other Minerals Development Act 1960. The second is the acreage report, which is published on the Department's website approximately three times each year. Details of the licences and authorisations that have been awarded in the recent past are as follows.

Other authorisations, other than exploration licences, issued during the period include:

Petroleum prospecting licence 3/00 — ShellE&P Ireland Limited — expired on 7 June2005.

Currently, my Department has received two applications to convert licensing options to exploration licences, one onshore and one offshore in the Celtic Sea. Details will be published if and when the licences have been issued and signed. As regards licensing in the future, a licensing round has been announced over the Slyne-Erris-Donegal area with a closing date of 15 March 2006. It is not possible at this stage to say how many applications will be received or licences issued.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister also answering Question No. 310?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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No, just No. 90.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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They are related.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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It has been submitted for written answer and cannot be answered now.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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We have heard the pantomime story of Jack and the Beanstalk, which is occurring here. For a handful of beans the Government gave away our natural resources, including those we do not even have. Like foolish Jack, it took the beans and did not expect to get anything from the deal. Unfortunately, this is not a fairy tale. We are the ones who are suffering. People are lying on hospital trolleys and there are no ambulances based within 20 miles of three areas in the Health Service Executive western area. There are only two ambulances to cover the entire county of Mayo which has 120,000 people. We are suffering. Going back to Mr. Ray Burke in 1987 and the Taoiseach later——

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Is the Deputy putting a question to the Minister?

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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We can surely do something. There is no need to tie the hands of the Dáil for 15 years. If the companies are cute, this is exactly what they will get. They may even get 19 years. We are giving them something for which they need not do anything except promise to drill. Even after this, they do not need to drill. Why not give them licences for only five years as, at present, they do not need to decide to do anything with them? Why tie up all our resources for so much time? Can something not be done? People are suffering.

The Minister said that the number of hits is small. In fact, the number is quite high. When one considers what can be done in Norway, which owns 25% of the Corrib gas field, why can we not do the same? Some people say the Minister should not have given those licences as the companies were doing nothing for them.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I remind the Deputy of the time limit.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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Why did the Minister not give five-year licences, which would have been rational?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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We can talk about all the fairytales we like but there is no point in being "Alice in Wonderland" on this matter. We can barely give the licences away at present, of which the Deputy should be well aware.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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The companies are holding on to them.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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A few months ago the Minister said there were no licences.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Were I in this House at Estimates time with a different licensing regime or a State exploration company looking for €100 million to drill five wells where we had a hit rate of one in 30 over the past 30 years, I could imagine what the Opposition would say. We would be hearing from Deputy Cowley——

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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When they come back in for another licence.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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——again and hearing about the hospitals and the ambulances. He would remind us it was a waste of money with no return for it and no likelihood of any return. The Deputy cannot have it both ways. Since 1971 we have had 121 exploration wells. Just four of those wells have been successful: Kinsale in 1971, Ballycotton in 1989, Corrib in 2001 — with which the Deputy will be very familiar — and Seven Heads in 2002. There has been one commercial discovery for every 30 exploration wells drilled. This means 30 exploration wells at a minimum cost of €20 million each. The Deputy can do his own sums.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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What about the Kinsale profits?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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I can imagine what he would be saying to me on that matter if the Government was spending its money in that way.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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I remind the Minister that is the story they give him when the beggars come looking for another licence. That is the line they give him when he and the Department know well there is much more out there which they are not saying anything about. That is the reality.

The oil companies are playing ducks and drakes with the Department and the Minister. They welded together 1.5 km of pipe without the Minister's permission. That is what they think of him. They undervalued Corrib when they said it was worth €2 billion. The Minister of State, Deputy Parlon stated recently it was worth £2 billion. Its actual worth is €16 billion.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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A question, Deputy.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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They are playing ducks and drakes with the Minister. How can he trust them? I suggest he give them the licence for five years. Some might ask why give it to them at all. Technology is advancing all the time. Why should the Minister tie his hands for more than 19 years? I ask him to be rational.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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May I add a tiny addendum?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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I did not hear a question yet.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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I hope it is a tiny addendum. A question, please.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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I welcome the Minister's answer to Deputy Cowley which is very informative. He told The Sunday Tribune a few weeks ago that——

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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A brief question, please.

Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The Minister said he would re-examine the regime but he seems to have changed his mind. Has he changed his mind on the matters raised by Deputy Cowley? Does the Minister agree it is valuable to report regularly on licensing terms and licences to this House? I remind the Minister that is another Labour Party Bill.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister indicate to the House whether he has reviewed the conditions of the exploration leases? Has he identified any areas where he might revise and review the position with a view to giving greater benefit to the economy?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Cowley made a statement rather than asking a question about me being real about this issue.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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The Minister should limit it to five years.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is suggesting we leave the gas and oil out there and I do not agree with him.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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Will the Minister agree to limit it to five years?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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It would do nothing to help the economy to leave that oil and gas off the west coast or anywhere else.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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Why should the assets be tied up by giving companies 19 years? There is no rationale for that.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Order, please.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should not be talking about helping hospitals and ambulances and everything else by making a silly suggestion to leave natural resources and not exploit them.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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Why not just give it to them for five years and take it back if they do nothing with it?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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In answer to Deputy Broughan's question, the information which the Deputy requires is published every six months. A licensing report is available and published every six months under section 57 of the Petroleum and other Minerals Development Act. Another report is published approximately three times a year which refers to the specific acreage. Both reports are available on the Department's website.

With regard to a review of the licensing terms, I have indicated in the past that if we were in a position where we had a higher hit rate than at present, I would then agree to a change in the terms and conditions of licences rather than the State setting up its own exploration company.

In response to Deputy Durkan's question and part of Deputy Broughan's question, I am reviewing one area. Depending on receipt of further information, I will consider changing the terms and conditions of the licences. If there is sufficient evidence that it may be a viable well, I will consider changing the terms.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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We are well over time. We must proceed with QuestionNo. 91.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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Why should the Minister give them a licence for 19 years?

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Nobody will take it even for 15 years.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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The Minister should consider the facts. He is giving it to them for 19 years. We will be 19 years without resources.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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They will not take them.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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The rational thing to do would be to give them for five years. Why should the Minister give them for 19 years? They are so cute and they will have them for 19 years. Why not give them for just five years? If they do nothing with it then it should be taken back.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy asks a question he should listen to the answer.

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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Order, please.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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I have listened to the answer but it is not making sense.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is not listening.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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The Minister is just leaving it to them.