Dáil debates
Wednesday, 16 November 2005
Order of Business.
11:00 am
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 10a, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; and No. 18, statements on housing. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 10a shall be decided without debate, the proceedings on No. 18 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes. Private Members' business shall be No. 43, motion re reform of the Competition Act 2002, resumed, to conclude at 8.30 p.m.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10a agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 18 agreed? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When does the Government propose to bring forward its views on Dáil reform, an issue we have discussed before? I realise the Government Chief Whip has a number of options but when are we likely to see and discuss them? I welcome the statements on housing today, but is it still the belief of the Government that the ten outstanding Bills will be published before the end of the session? Following the inflammatory remarks made by an Islamic radical, Mr. Anjum Choudhury, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ordered a review of legislation dealing with the legal options to ensure that persons cannot abuse the hospitality given to them in this country in such an unacceptable way. Has the review commenced and when is it likely to be completed? Will legislative change be required to give effect to the Minister's correct views on the matter?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to the first issue of reform, I mentioned yesterday that the Government Chief Whip, the Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach, Deputy Kitt, is moving ahead within Dáil committees, using access where people can give their views on the Internet. There are other issues which he would like to pursue with Opposition Whips if they are ready to do so, and to seek agreement. I am not sure if that will be possible.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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There is a roadblock on the issue.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy put the roadblock down.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is a guillotine.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The only worthwhile reforms that have come in are ones which I have brought in myself. Nobody else is interested. That is not changing.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Perhaps the Deputy brought in some reforms also.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should not ask the Deputy beside him about that.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The ten Bills will be published by the end of January. The third issue mentioned by Deputy Kenny is being actively examined. People who are allowed into the country and given the courtesies of the State must comply with certain issues. Whether it will require legislation or regulation, the issue is being actively pursued.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Did the Taoiseach listen to the Minister of State at the Department of Transport, Deputy Callely, on local radio this morning? He came on the site of the latest gangland killing and explained how shocked and horrified he was, advising all his neighbours to lock up, stating that it was not safe on the streets anymore.
Ivor Callely (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not say that.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Is this the general view of the Government? Is the legislation which was promised to put protection of witnesses on a statutory basis forthcoming? When will the legislation be brought before the House?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is not listed.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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This is legislation to deal with the witness protection system. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy McDowell, on one of his many appearances pledged he would put such a system on a statutory basis.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As of now the legislation is not listed. Perhaps a question to the Minister would be appropriate.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Is the Taoiseach willing to accede to the request made earlier for a debate on Aer Lingus, given that the related Oireachtas committee has been stood down? We should take an overview of the current position of Aer Lingus and the company's development.
With regard to promised legislation, does the Taoiseach still wish to pursue the Tribunals of Inquiry Bill, given that he has acted unilaterally and essentially made a deal with the legal professions? Perhaps the Bill is not required as arrangements have already been made. Given there may be an opportunity, will the Taoiseach examine again the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005, which is approximately nine months old? From the Information Commissioner's perspective, it contains disproportionate measures to what would be needed, given the perceived threat against Ireland. Has any time been set aside to review the legislation, and does the Tribunals of Inquiry Bill need to proceed? It has been with us for three sessions.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The second piece of legislation referred to by the Deputy has been enacted as the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It is nine months old. I am asking for a review.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Tribunals of Inquiry Bill is due to be enacted this session. The questions to the Department of Transport will be next week and there will be an opportunity to discuss the Aer Lingus issue.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There are references to implementing commitments in the programme for Government and updating legislation in line with proposals for delivering better Government. As the latter is unlikely, what is the status of the Minerals Development Bill? I also inquire about the legislation to restructure Bord Gáis Éireann with particular reference to the submission made to the Joint Committee on Communications, Marine and Natural Resources yesterday by people from Mayo and the general north-west area on the need to benefit from the infrastructure in their area.
As the electricity charges paid by the industrial sector in this country are the highest in Europe and are causing serious cost problems, when is the proposed electricity Bill, which may give an indication of the Government's sincerity, likely to be introduced? Oil prices internationally are on a downward spiral, so when will the national oil reserves agency Bill be introduced? We could have a debate on various contributing factors and how best to use the resources to our advantage.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minerals Development Bill is to be published in 2006. The Bord Gáis Éireann Bill, which has 50 heads to restructure Bord Gáis Éireann, is being worked on currently. I hope to publish the Bill in 2006. The 172 heads of the electricity Bill, which has heads to convert the ESB into a plc under the Companies Act and consolidate existing electricity, have been approved by Government. A number of the heads approved are being revised for technical and administrative reasons. The Bill is due in the middle of next year. The heads of the national oil reserves agency Bill have been approved and the Bill is due early in the new year.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Bill be brought forward as the relevant Minister has extra scientific staff in his Department? There may be a possibility to speed the process up.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Due to the spiralling nature of violent gangland crime and the fact the Garda appears to know everything about the gangs and their feuds but is unable to collect hard evidence, prosecute and convict——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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My question is in the context of the Criminal Justice Bill 2004, which has been in gestation since 2002, the year this Government came to power, and which was published 18 months ago. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform promised an amendment, one of many which will no doubt lead to a doubling in the size of the Bill. The amendment, which would criminalise membership of a gang, has not yet arrived. When will this amendment be tabled, as the Minister does not appear to have any other views on dealing with the matter?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Criminal Justice Bill 2004 is due in this session. I do not know if the amendment is contained in it.
12:00 pm
Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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The report of the national task force on obesity was launched a month ago. At the launch, the Taoiseach took personal responsibility to implement various recommendations. Will the Taoiseach update the House on the current state of the recommendations? Is it possible to have a debate on this important report?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should address the first question directly to the relevant Minister. The Taoiseach may answer the second question.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know if a debate is promised. It would not be a bad report for the House to debate. The recommendations have gone to several Ministries, although they are mainly procedural issues rather than legislative. We could do worse than debate it.
Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach has taken personal responsibility for the implementation.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It must be implemented across numerous Departments. It has already been implemented in Departments such as Health and Children and Education and Science. With regard to a debate to follow up on it, if the House had time this would not be a bad report to debate.
Joe Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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When will the health and nursing home amendment Bill be brought before the House to clarify and standardise the application of the nursing home subvention scheme?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is hoped to have the Bill published by Christmas and taken in the spring session.
Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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With regard to impending legislation, a report on the future of rural Ireland was published by NUI Maynooth today. The national spatial strategy and national development plan show bias towards the east coast and the south, which this report confirms.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation is the Deputy referring?
Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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Is there legislation to ensure that we in the west can have a future? These reports are not being implemented. Will the Government include something in the Estimates to make up for the shortfall in funding for the west as identified in the Indecon report, the mid-term review of the national development plan?
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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On the same issue, it is important that the House would have an opportunity to debate the issue of Government funding.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair has ruled many times that it is only appropriate to raise debates in the House that are promised.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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A report shows that the mid-east region has been under funded compared to other areas.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Timmins should resume his seat.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Funding allocated per capita has decreased from 81% to 70% of the national average since 1996. It is important that we have a debate on the issue so that we can establish exactly what the situation is.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Since the establishment of the State, the Chair has ruled——
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We in the mid-east are being hit in terms of population but are getting very little funding.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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——that a Deputy can only ask about promised debates.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach might promise one now.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Government promises virtually everything.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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If each Deputy were to ask for a debate he or she would like, all Deputies on each side of the House would be up every morning asking.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Would that not be dreadful?
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Perhaps we should call for a——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We would not get any business done.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Transport 21 and the national development plan will continue to be rolled out.
Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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A total under funding of €200 million in public transport in the Border, midlands and west region.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should keep his eye out for a report.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Regarding the traffic jam in the city——
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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We built a separate highway for Deputy Timmins to get home. It is an excellent roadway.
Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Durkan will probably claim credit for it.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow Deputy Crawford, who has been waiting patiently, to speak.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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On a point of order, standard procedure for the Taoiseach's predecessors in such matters was to say it was a matter for the Whips, who would then discuss it and through which we might have got a promise from the Government. We would then be promised——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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When I made that comment one morning, the Deputy objected.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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That was when the Ceann Comhairle was kicking the matter to touch.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It shows that I listen to the Deputy. Deputy Crawford without interruption.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise three issues that are relevant to the Order of Business. When will the judicial council Bill come before the House? In light of the ongoing problems experienced by people here affected by immigration laws, when will the immigration and residency Bill be discussed so that there can be changes to make these people's lives reasonable? In light of the headlines in today's The Irish Times relating to how we will only have 10,000 full-time farmers in a number of years, would the Taoiseach accept that there is now a need to update the land and conveyancing Bill, as much land will have to be sorted out?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the judicial council Bill to provide effective remedies for complaints about judicial misbehaviour, including lay participation in investigations into complaints, draft heads are being prepared in the Department to take into account work done by the constitutional review group, the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Constitution and the Chief Justice's committee on judicial ethics. On the land and conveyancing Bill, the heads of the Bill are expected late in 2005 to give effect to recommendations of the Law Reform Commission. On the immigration and residency Bill, there are 70 heads and work is ongoing. The Bill is due next year but it is a large Bill.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Can proposals be made?
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Given that both Mr. Barry McSweeney and the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Martin, have dropped Mr. McSweeney's title of "Dr." and that there are a number of bogus universities other than Pacific Western University that advertise on the Internet, are there any plans to amend the legislation that established the National Qualifications Authority in order to have a watchdog to ensure that these types of bogus universities cannot pretend they are genuine?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No legislation is listed.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Would the Taoiseach agree it is necessary?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should pursue it with the Minister in question form.
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Since people are having difficulties trying to get planning permission from local authorities, particularly for energy efficient housing that we all believe is badly needed, are any guidelines, regulations or legislation promised to get local authorities to change the guidelines they send out and that were published by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, in 2004?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No legislation is promised.
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Are any guidelines forthcoming?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest that the Deputy submits a question to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach decides when it is due. He wants to reply.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is going to reply.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach cannot be out of order any more than the Deputy.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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He has the answer but he will not give it.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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In the context of the publication of the Estimates tomorrow, will the normal courtesy of making a copy of them available to Opposition spokespersons on finance approximately an hour before the publication and Government press conference prevail? Will the Taoiseach speak with the Minister for Finance, who seems unclear as to whether he is willing to give the Opposition a copy of the Estimates? Will the Taoiseach agree to a debate on the Estimates as soon as possible after their publication?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will raise the issue of circulation with the Minister for Finance and the Opposition's finance spokespersons. It is a matter for the——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should allow the Taoiseach to respond.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It is important to us that the Opposition has sight of the Estimates so that we can examine them.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach answered the Deputy's first question and was about to answer her second when she interrupted. I ask the Deputy to resume her seat and allow the Taoiseach to answer her second question.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will raise the first matter. On the second issue of the House wishing a debate, it usually does.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I wish to make another point.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot make a point at this stage. The Taoiseach answered her questions.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The officials in the Department of Finance believe this is a personal matter for the Minister. He has not made up his mind yet.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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If Deputy Broughan's colleague does not allow him to speak, we will move to the next business and he will be first tomorrow.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will raise the matter with the Minister.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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We have heard many strong comments from the Taoiseach concerning Irish Ferries workers. Did he get a chance to read the Labour Party mercantile marine avoidance of flags of convenience Bill?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This does not arise on the Order of Business.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is promised legislation.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Does the Taoiseach believe the Government could take it over and have it passed quickly? Regarding the single market for electricity, which will take effect just after his Government has left office in the middle of 2007——
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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——will it require legislation? Relating to the Taoiseach's reply yesterday when he told me that he did not know anything about the inland fisheries report, his very efficient Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Gallagher, announced it on the 9 o'clock news.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise on the Order of Business.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is extraordinary how the Taoiseach did not seem to be aware of this report, a major reformation of inland fisheries structures, when Deputy Gallagher suddenly announced it. What is happening?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is published now.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That was a major piece of information.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is an electricity Bill. I am not sure if it is exactly the same one but there is one listed.