Dáil debates
Wednesday, 2 November 2005
Order of Business.
5:00 pm
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 9, motion re Social Welfare Consolidation Bill 2005; and No. 13, Health and Social Care Professionals Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that No. 9 shall be decided without debate; and Private Members' Business, which shall be No. 40, motion re Irish unity, shall also take place tomorrow immediately after the Order of Business and shall be brought to a conclusion after 90 minutes on that day.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are two proposals to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9, motion re Social Welfare Consolidation Bill 2005, agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for the taking of Private Members' Business tomorrow agreed?
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In the event that the Health and Social Care Professionals Bill would impact on Private Members' time, I propose that we would allow for the full 90 minutes this evening, following on the conclusion of——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is no proposal before the House so the debate will commence at 7 p.m.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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If a vote is called, that will impact on the time. I ask for agreement that in the event that a vote is called, we would allow the full time. This has been accommodated in such a manner in the past.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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I propose that the House agrees to this.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The House can agree to it or time can be added on tomorrow, whichever——
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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This refers to tonight's business.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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My suggestion is only in anticipation. The problem might not present itself.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Have we a proposal?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The proposal is that we would not lose time if there is a vote at 7 p.m.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We would continue on.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Go raibh maith agat.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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On the Order of Business, I call Deputy Bruton.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure whether it is three, four or five years since the Planning and Development (Strategic National Infrastructure) Bill was initiated as a high priority Bill. As we come to the end of the national development plan, we have not seen the Bill and most likely will not see it before the national development plan expires. In the context of the new transport plan, is this Bill regarded as a high priority or is it taking a back seat?
The greater Dublin area land use and transport authority Bill, a Bill that was close to the heart of a former Minister, Senator O'Rourke, was on the list of proposed legislation for a long period but was then dropped. Was I correct in hearing the Minister state yesterday that it was back on again? It must be five years since the former Minister, Senator O'Rourke, presented the proposal as a red paper and a blue paper but it then fell by the wayside. Is it now finding its way back?
Perhaps I am mistaken but I understand a proposal was made that responsibility for ports might move to the Department of Transport. Perhaps this comes under the slogan "Dempsey delivers"— he delivers things out of his Department to other Departments. Will we have legislation or an order rearranging ministerial responsibilities in that context?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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To be fair, he delivered the e-voting machines to the Minister, Deputy Cullen.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The heads of the Planning and Development (Strategic National Infrastructure) Bill were approved in the early part of the summer. The Bill is due in the spring session. The greater Dublin area land use and transport authority Bill, which was only for the Dublin area, was dropped some time ago. The Minister announced yesterday that his Department and the relevant agencies are considering the issue of better co-ordination. Whether that means legislation or some other way——
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Bill is half way back.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill is to bring coherence to half a dozen organisations, working together.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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Bring back Senator O'Rourke. She did the work on this ages ago.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is needed not for the Dublin area but nationally.
An examination is under way with regard to having the ports under the Department of Transport. The two relevant Ministers are to bring forward proposals on this issue.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I was about to say that Deputy Bruton had left me deprived of any questions to ask. However, on hearing the Taoiseach's answer, he clearly has not. Will the Dublin transport authority be on a statutory basis? If so, when will the proposals be introduced? What does the Taoiseach mean when he says it will be a national authority for Dublin? We had enough problems when it was confined to Dublin.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Dublin is the nation.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I thought the Minister made a definite commitment on this matter yesterday.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It sounds like Dublin will make a UDI.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It is a rural solution to a Dublin problem.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is what we need.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Bill that was listed for some years will not go ahead. The proposals in the Bill are not sufficient, and it is not considered to be useful or workable. The Minister stated yesterday that changes will be required to get all of the transport organisations working together to implement a plan of the scale proposed based on what has been happening for the past five or six years. Whether these changes are administrative, legal or otherwise, the Minister will bring them forward with the intention of getting the transport organisations to work more effectively together.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Not even the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Lenihan, would be able to explain that on television.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I am not sure whether the Taoiseach is talking about a can of oil or legislation to get all the agencies to work together. Can we have clarity with regard to the promised legislation required for the implementation of the Transport 21 plan announced yesterday? Is a new Bill planned that will not be called the greater Dublin area land use and transport authority Bill? The Minister referred to a high powered organisation required to co-ordinate 17 public bodies dealing with Dublin alone, never mind the rest of the country. When will the relevant legislation be published?
I have tried previously to get an answer on a fundamental question for the House. The tribunal of inquiries Bill has been promised "this session" for some years. If it is not published soon, the House must have a motion to agree, or otherwise, the rowing back of the date for fees——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise. I call the Taoiseach to respond on the legislation.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The matter of fees for solicitors and senior counsel does arise in the House. The Taoiseach stated the matter will have to be brought to the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Only promised legislation arises.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The spending of public money and a promise by the Taoiseach to bring a matter to the House is a matter for the Order of Business. He promised to bring it to the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair has ruled on the matter.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I ask the Taoiseach to comply with his promise.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should allow the Taoiseach to answer his legitimate question.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is due this session.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The tribunal of inquiries Bill is due this session. To respond to the Deputy's other point, if I state that a matter will be brought to the House and then, in a parliamentary question unrelated to what I was asked, I actually bring the information to the House——
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It was the Taoiseach's decision.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The House agreed motions and the terms of reference. We are not talking about changing those terms of reference; that is where the House would be consulted. However, I brought the information to the House, which was the proper way to proceed.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Given that the heads of the Planning and Development (Strategic National Infrastructure) Bill passed before Government in June last, what is the reason for its delay?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Bruton received an answer to that question.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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My question is whether the Taoiseach is satisfied that adequate and full parliamentary resources are available in terms of parliamentary draftsmen.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This does not arise. I call Deputy McManus.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise on the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the appropriate Minister.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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The question is if there is no one to deal with the legislation——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The question has already been dealt with by Deputy Bruton. It is now 5.20 p.m. and we still have not finished the Order of Business.
Tom Kitt (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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It will be dealt with early next year.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Now that Hallowe'en is out of the way, people are looking forward to Christmas. However, many of our elderly are still owed much money by the Government. Will the Taoiseach inform the House as to when precisely legislation will be introduced to ensure they get their money back? Will there be a Supplementary Estimate, as promised by the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children, to provide those moneys?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The repayment scheme for charges for publicly funded residential long stay care Bill is due at the end of this year.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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On a recent Order of Business, I objected to a motion being taken without debate regarding the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission. The Taoiseach responded that I would have the opportunity to address this matter in the debate on the Estimates. Today, I was advised by the Taoiseach's Department that it transpires that is not the case. Given the serious concerns I expressed, including that there is no direct representation from the Technical Group on the commission, will he now afford a special opportunity to debate both the moneys for the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission and other salient points?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have clarified for the Deputy the procedures involved. The Houses of the Oireachtas Commission is not provided for in the Book of Estimates. When the debate takes place on the Estimates, it will be excluded from it. If the House wishes to find a way to have a debate on that matter, it will have to be through some separate process. It could occur if the Whips examined it.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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All Members will be grateful for the intervention of the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources in the dispute at An Post. Hopefully, everything will proceed according to plan. Given the last ditch fire brigade nature of the action, is it not advisable to restore the postal miscellaneous services Bill to the Order Paper, with a view to encouraging the broadest possible debate on the issues involved?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation was removed from the Order Paper.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach return it to the Order Paper?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Only promised legislation can be raised on the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy submit a question to the relevant Minister.
Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
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Has the Taoiseach had an opportunity to re-examine the Bill relating to the register of persons who are considered unsafe to work with children? I have raised this matter many times. However, each time the same answer is given, that it is not possible to indicate when it will be published. In light of the Ferns report, has the Government been able to move the legislation forward?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have requested that it be examined. The reason it was held up was that the Departments of Education and Science and Health and Children were examining the establishment of a pre-employment consultancy service on this matter. However, it has not been possible to do this due to the North-South Ministerial Council not operating. I have requested that some other way of setting it up be examined.
Beverley Flynn (Mayo, Independent)
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No. 46 relates to the western rail corridor. In light of yesterday's announcements in Transport 21, we welcome the decision to open the corridor——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should raise a question on legislation.
Beverley Flynn (Mayo, Independent)
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My question relates to No. 46 on the Order Paper. Are the dates outlined in Transport 21 set in stone or is it possible, after the commitment given in the House last year to address the imbalance of underspend in the BMW region, for the project to be fast-tracked sooner than the nine year period indicated?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This does not arise on the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the appropriate Minister.
Beverley Flynn (Mayo, Independent)
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My question relates to No. 46 on the Order Paper.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the content of No. 46.
Beverley Flynn (Mayo, Independent)
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I asked a question on No. 46 and as I understand from Standing Orders it is appropriate.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is a question more appropriate to the Minister concerned who would be in a position to answer the Deputy. I call Deputy Gay Mitchell.
Beverley Flynn (Mayo, Independent)
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Under Standing Orders, if the Taoiseach can answer my question, it will save much time. The question is in order.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No. 46 relates to a Private Members' motion. The only question is whether Government time will be provided for it.
Beverley Flynn (Mayo, Independent)
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I can raise it on the Order of Business, given that it is a Private Members' motion on the Order Paper.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes, but not its content. I call Deputy Gay Mitchell.
Beverley Flynn (Mayo, Independent)
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I believe the Taoiseach would like to answer the question. It is a "yes or no" answer. Can it be fast-tracked?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will bring the Deputy's views to the Minister's attention.
Gay Mitchell (Dublin South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach and the Minister for Agriculture and Food will be aware of the debate on the possibility of an avian flu pandemic. Will the Taoiseach consider bringing forward the animal health Bill before Christmas so that a rational debate can take place in the House?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation in question is very extensive. I do not believe it will be ready before the Christmas break. Heads were approved some time ago but it is a large Bill.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It is proposed to take the Sea Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction Bill 2005 in the coming weeks. Will the text be the same as that published some weeks ago, which was the subject of a heated Fianna Fáil parliamentary meeting?
Regarding the Taoiseach's reply to Deputy Ó Caoláin on flags of convenience, the Taoiseach outlined that the Attorney General's advice on trade unions——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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It does arise. It concerns upcoming legislation. Is it possible that Members be given copies of the Attorney General's advice on the unconstitutionality of the——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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He keeps saying it is unconstitutional. He is a helpless Taoiseach.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach to respond on the Sea Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction Bill 2005, questions which were answered last Tuesday and Thursday.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is nearly ready. However, I cannot say if it will be ready for Christmas.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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The Law Reform Commission has released a report on corporate killings. Has the Government any proposals to introduce legislation in this area?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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No legislation is promised at this stage.
Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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A review of public safety was commissioned by the Tánaiste and published in 2000, which recommended the establishment of an office for public safety regulation to monitor regulations. However, due to the difficulty of public safety being policed by public authorities, will legislation be introduced to ensure the office of public safety regulation is established? This was recommended in 2000 and there are major deficiencies in safety at work and the like.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is no legislation listed for this area.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform recently stated he was bringing proposals to Cabinet on the establishment of an inquiry, under the Commissions of Investigation Act, into child sexual abuse in the Dublin diocese. Has this taken place? When will legislation on the matter be introduced in the House? Does the Taoiseach intend to follow up with legislation on his proposed audit of other dioceses?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will bring forward proposals in the coming weeks on an inquiry into child abuse in the Dublin diocese. We have already stated a national audit must take place in other dioceses. The Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Brian Lenihan, is writing to diocesan authorities on this matter.