Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Question 6: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs when the Pensions Board report on options for introducing mandatory pensions will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30968/05]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Question 13: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the number of persons who have taken out PRSAs at the latest date for which figures are available; the overall proportion of the eligible workforce this represents; his plans to review the scheme in view of the low take-up rate to date; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30948/05]

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 23: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs when the Pensions Board will produce the pensions strategy report; when he will come to a final decision on a new pension system to address the looming pension crisis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30839/05]

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Question 44: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs the basis on which he is considering the introduction of mandatory pensions for workers in the private sector; the nature of the review being undertaken; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30947/05]

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Question 61: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs when the review of pensions strategy that he has asked the Pensions Board to complete will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30950/05]

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 71: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs if, with regard to the introduction of a soft mandatory pension system, the effectiveness of this new system in improving pensions take-up in the labour force; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30838/05]

Damien English (Meath, Fine Gael)
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Question 90: To ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs his views on the proposal from IBEC that the Government should spend up to €800 million next year to encourage lower paid workers to take out private pensions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30847/05]

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 6, 13, 23, 44, 61, 71 and 90 together.

It is Government policy to encourage people to participate in occupational and private pension arrangements so they can, when they retire, maintain their pre-retirement standard of living. To this end, a range of measures has been introduced in recent years, including personal retirement savings accounts, PRSAs, mandatory employer PRSA access where occupational schemes are not available and an ongoing national pensions awareness campaign.

On overall occupational and private pensions coverage, CSO figures for the first quarter of 2004 show that 52.4% of persons in employment have a supplementary pension. Of a national workforce of some 2 million people, an estimated 900,000 do not have a private or occupational pension to boost their incomes in retirement. The key target group for Government action in the supplementary pensions area is those who are 30 years of age and over. The national pensions policy initiative suggested that up to 70% of this group will need to supplement their social welfare pensions to maintain living standards in retirement. The most recent CSO figures suggest that 59.1% of people in this group have the necessary pensions cover.

There is no doubt that progress on pensions coverage is being made given that, in recent years, there has been a steady increase in the number of people taking out PRSAs and in those participating in occupational schemes. The most recent figures from the Pensions Board show that just over 55,000 PRSAs had been taken out up to the end of June 2005. However, overall pension coverage is increasing at a lower rate than is desirable. The reasons for this are many and varied and include, for instance, issues of affordability and the fact that many people feel they are too young to consider pension provision.

As the House will be aware, in February of this year I asked the Pensions Board to commence work on a comprehensive review of our overall pensions strategy in advance of the original timeframe of September 2006.

The review encompasses an examination of the main strategic recommendations contained in the national pensions policy initiative, including those relating to the adequacy of income in retirement, coverage targets, levels of social welfare pensions, sustainability of State pensions, including public sector pensions, and the tax support for private and occupational pensions.

The review is also examining the question of alternative ways of addressing adequacy and coverage issues, including the question of mandatory provision. The role the State might have in future pensions provision is also being examined.

Mandatory pensions can take a number of different forms. In many countries, particularly in the EU, the state plays a central role in the provision of compulsory supplementary pensions. In other countries, the requirement can be for a person to participate in an occupational or private sector scheme. A variation of the mandatory system was introduced in New Zealand earlier this year and involves automatic enrolment of a person in a scheme with the option available to withdraw if he or she wishes. I understand this type of initiative, known as a "soft mandatory" option, is also being considered in the United Kingdom. As it is a relatively new concept in pension provision, it is difficult to say how successful it might be in dealing with pensions in an Irish context. However, the Pensions Board is looking at the system as part of its overall review.

On incentives generally, I am aware of the potential of maturing SSIAs as a way of increasing pensions coverage and I have also asked the Pensions Board to consider how we might tap into the savings habit that has been created to develop attractive pension-based savings initiatives. I understand it was in this context that IBEC put forward its proposal on incentives for pensions provision. It has suggested that the contribution limits allowed for tax purposes be lifted to facilitate the transfer of SSIAs to pension schemes.

Work on the Pensions Board review is nearly complete and I expect to receive the final report within the next couple of weeks. At this stage, I am not proposing any particular measures but I will consider the conclusions of the Pensions Board very carefully and consult my Cabinet colleagues on the way forward.

Internationally, governments are trying to deal with the challenge of funding pensions for an older population who are generally living longer and healthier lives. The Irish position is by no means in crisis. The demographic trends are to remain favourable for the next ten years or so and this allows us time to address the issues concerning our pensions system. It is essential, however, that we take action sooner rather than later so we can deliver on our commitment to ensure an adequate retirement pension for everybody.

Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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The Minister did not indicate when he is likely to receive the report of the Pensions Board and, on foot of receiving it, when he anticipates it will be published, assuming he believes it should be published in the interest of the ongoing debate. I encourage him to adopt such a belief. In his public statements on this issue the Minister has indicated at least a preference for mandatory pensions. Maybe I misinterpreted his statements. While that has value, there are also difficulties in regard to how to compel individuals to make specific provision. I am glad to hear the Minister say——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should confine himself to questions because we have moved beyond Priority Questions and other Deputies will wish to submit questions. Question Time is intended for the Deputy to ask a question to elicit information from the Minister. I ask all Deputies, now that we have moved on from Priority Questions, to be more precise in their questioning.

Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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I ask the Ceann Comhairle to pardon my phraseology. I am trying to phrase my questions in such a way as to fit the omnibus reply the Minister put together which moves away slightly from my original question.

The report is expected to deal with tax reliefs, which is significant in light of my question about when it will be published because we are approaching the budget and the Finance Bill. There has been much criticism of the inequalities in tax relief for private pensions. Will the Minister indicate when the report will be published and whether he intends to interact with the Minister for Finance to tackle the inequalities in the tax system to encourage private pension schemes?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I should receive the Pensions Board report in a few weeks. I intend to publish it after the Government has considered it in order to have a debate on the options for the future. I have asked the board to think radically. I do not know what it will propose but I trust that it took on board my request not to dodge the issues.

The nation needs to address this serious situation but it is not a political issue. Every country, including the United Kingdom, Australia and New Zealand, is struggling with pensions because people live longer and retire earlier than in the past and the gap between the two is great. The tax relief we give on pensions is almost €2 billion per annum.

Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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That is more than we pay out.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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It is exactly the amount I pay out every year in social welfare pensions. A significant amount of State money goes into the system.

One figure looming large is that 500,000 women in the workforce have no provision for occupational pensions. The Government cannot allow that to continue indefinitely. That is why I am interested in the concept of mandatory pensions but I will be advised by the Pensions Board's comments on their practicality. The experiment in New Zealand whereby people are in schemes unless they choose to opt out of them might be worth considering here. The United Kingdom is considering it too. If we let the present system tick over, those in the public service and many others are well covered, and if we are elected often enough to this House we are well looked after. However, those 500,000 women are not well looked after and we have a responsibility to deal with that issue.

Willie Penrose (Westmeath, Labour)
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Has the Minister discussed this matter with IBEC or ICTU because he must be aware those bodies hold differing views? Has he given any consideration to the soft mandatory pensions and how they are being reviewed in England?

Can the Minister do anything to make the personal retirement savings account, PRSA, more attractive to people? Why did people not take it up despite the fair wind of publicity it received? What was the trigger that caused it to fail so notably? Had it been taken up, the situation we face 20 or 30 years from now would surely not be the urgent matter the Minister is rightly addressing.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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IBEC and ICTU are represented on the Pensions Board so to that extent they are being fully consulted and have a direct input. I will consult them directly after publication of the report to hear their responses to it. I have pressed my colleagues to include pensions on the agenda of national pay talks and partnership agreements and not focus only on workers' current requirements and pressures.

A total of 55,000 people have taken out PRSAs. The number is growing steadily but is well below what it should be. The main reason for the slow uptake is that it is voluntary and employers are required to facilitate taking out a PRSA but not to push people to do it. A completely voluntary scheme that involves paying out a weekly or monthly sum is always difficult to sell.

There may be a case for being tougher on employers to bring the PRSA more forcefully to the attention of the employee. I do not wish to say too much before the report comes out but this may be a soft mandatory area where employers might be required to ask employees to say "No" rather than help them to say "Yes".

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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What was the Government's target for PRSAs? What is the annual tax relief on PRSAs? The Minister said there is no crisis, yet this scheme has existed for ten years. What is his view on allowing people to work longer? What requirements would need to be introduced to allow that happen?

If that happened what would be the pension ramifications? If the Pensions Board's report is not to be submitted to the Minister for a few weeks followed by publication and a debate, it will be some time before we see any action on this issue. Does he have any plans to make changes in the meantime?

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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A total of 55,000 people hold PRSAs. There was no formal Government target but I would have expected that at least 100,000 might have joined the scheme by now. I do not have a breakdown of tax relief between different schemes because tax breaks on pensions cover a range of schemes. I am sure it is available and broken down by scheme and I will get the figures for the Deputy. PRSAs are only one aspect of this issue because there are other tax efficient pension arrangements. The overall figure is close to €2 billion. I can get the exact figure for the Deputy.

It is not as much a crisis here as in other countries because our demographics are still favourable. Within the European Union only 44% of people aged over 50 are in the workforce. In the United Kingdom the figure is 53% and the figure here is probably similar. I need to pin that figure down so the Deputy should not hold me to it. People in their early 50s in the western world are leaving the workforce. Since 1985 life expectancy has increased by five years into the 80s. That period imposes a significant strain on pension systems. It will take the wisdom of Job to consider the situation where a person is retired for longer than he or she worked.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The wisdom of Solomon.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is better than I am on the Bible, but with the kind of numbers facing us it will take biblical wisdom to figure out how the western world can continue to afford the decent pensions to which we should aspire.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Job was very pessimistic.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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As for taking action, I will publish this report. The issues are fundamental and no Government could move far in this area without an intense public debate on what people are prepared to do. Basically, one is asking people to pay now for something which they might not avail of for 30 or 40 years. That is not an easy proposition.

Seán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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I listened to what the Minister said about the SSIA scheme. Hopefully there will be some imagination used and a pension incentive provided. Everyone is concerned about how that money will affect the economy.

The Minister talked of some people feeling that they are too young to consider pensions. Does the Minister accept that part of the problem is that many young people are living beyond their means? More young Irish people are buying property than young people in other European countries. They are thinking of pensions in terms of property. Does the Minister agree that while people on the Continent go down the pension route, in Ireland we seem to be looking for more adaptable ways of saving for one's pension?

We take the attitude that young people party all night and sleep all day but that is not true. Does the Minister agree that young people have mortgages, child care costs, transport costs and so on? It is part of the difficulty that people feel they have not currently got the money for pension saving and are leaving the matter for later. Does the Minister agree that it is a matter of creating a package which will attract young people into pension schemes?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must call a halt as we have already spent 18 minutes on this question.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I have a couple of family members in their early 20s and the least I will say is that they are living beyond their means.

Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Perhaps beyond the means of the Minister.

Séamus Brennan (Dublin South, Fianna Fail)
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I take Deputy Crowe's point. He mentioned the Continent, but the PRSI take on the Continent is substantially greater than it is in Ireland. Taxes and the take from payroll are much higher there than in Ireland. There is greater involvement in pensions on the Continent because much of the saving there is semi-mandatory, while in Ireland, apart from the basic PRSI system which funds our State pensions, we do not have a mandatory element. Society may have to make a decision as to what extent it wants to live for today or invest in pensions for tomorrow, either through the PRSI or PRSA system, or directly through the tax breaks system. This is a societal issue which we must address.