Dáil debates
Thursday, 27 October 2005
Order of Business.
10:30 am
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is proposed to take No. 19, Transfer of Execution of Sentences Bill 2003 [Seanad]— Order for Report, Report and Final Stages, to adjourn at 1.30 p.m., if not previously concluded; and No. 18, Parental Leave (Amendment) Bill 2004 [Seanad]: Second Stage (resumed).
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 2 November.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with the adjournment of the Dáil until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 2 November agreed to? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The House would be in shock if the Ceann Comhairle allowed a Standing Order 31 debate some day.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Would we be able for it?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would like to raise five matters. First, the register of persons unsafe to work with children Bill was listed at No. 40 in the Government's legislative programme and it was promised in the programme for Government. Will it be fast-tracked?
Second, I refer to the health Bill and the establishment of a new inspectorate for nursing homes. There is continuing concern about the nursing home inspectorate regime. What is the position regarding the publication of this Bill?
The third matter is the Meath bus crash report. The Director of Public Prosecutions has asked Iarnród Éireann not to publish it and I can understand, as an independent agent of the State, his concern in this regard. While respecting the independence of his office, will the Tánaiste ensure, because of the difficulties this will pose for families, publication should not be delayed indefinitely? In other words, there should be a focus on when it can be published.
Fourth, Deputy Enright raised a question yesterday about Marie Therese O'Loughlin who is on hunger strike outside the gates of the House. Her wish is to have the Morning Star Hostel included on the register of institutions under the Residential Institutions Redress Act. A number of Members from different parties spoke to her yesterday.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In view of the special relationship between the Minister for Foreign Affairs and the United Nations Secretary General, Kofi Annan, does the Government propose to issue a statement in respect of Iranian comments about blowing Israel off the map?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The register of persons unsafe to work with children Bill is being done on a North-South basis, which is appropriate. It will be done as quickly as possible but I am not in a position to say when we will have the legislation.
The inspectorate of nursing homes will be part of the health information and quality authority legislation, which I hope to bring to the Cabinet soon.
There are three reports on the Meath crash by the Garda, Bus Éireann and the health authorities regarding health and safety issues. The DPP has intervened regarding one of the reports. We would all like the reports to be available to the families, in particular, and the public as quickly as possible but if a report could compromise a prosecution, everybody would understand the need for it to be kept confidential for the moment.
The Deputy referred to a statement from the Government regarding Iran. I will communicate the Deputy's comments to the Minister for Foreign Affairs. I am not aware if he intends to make a statement.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Tánaiste will know from today's newspapers that considerable confusion exists arising from remarks of the Taoiseach on the Government response to the Ferns Report. This is not a party political matter but there is a requirement for clarity from the Government. Neither journalists nor I are sure what a national audit means. After asking the Taoiseach I am still unsure if the commitment by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to an inquiry into the Dublin archdiocese stands and if that inquiry will proceed.
On No. 59 on the C list of the Government's legislation programme, have the heads of the Bill on the repayment scheme for charges for publicly funded residential long-stay care been approved by Cabinet?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I refer to an issue raised by Deputy Kenny, which I forgot to address. The institutions covered by the redress board are those where the State had a supervisory role.
Regarding Deputy Rabbitte's question, the intention of the Government is to establish a commission of inquiry under new powers granted by recent legislation. The Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children, Deputy Brian Lenihan, and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform are in discussion and the intention is that the first module of the commission of inquiry would be an examination of current practice across all dioceses in the country. This will ensure that measures in operation in Ferns, commended by the Murphy report, are also in operation in every other diocese. In this way we can be assured that the risk of people abusing children, and its not being dealt with satisfactorily, is eliminated. The Minister is working on terms of reference for an inquiry into the Dublin diocese and he intends to bring proposals to Cabinet in two weeks.
In response to Deputy Rabbitte's question on the repayment scheme, the heads of the Bill have not been cleared. The entire Bill will go to Cabinet and I hope to bring it before the House soon. Next year's Estimates will make substantial provision for the repayment of these moneys over the course of next year. Some 16,000 to 17,000 cases have been processed by the HSE and as soon as legislation is passed it will be in a position to make the payments quickly.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Do I take it from the Tánaiste's response that the inquiry into the Dublinarchdiocese will be under the Commissions of Investigation Act?
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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On foot of the Ferns report, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform promised amendments to the Criminal Justice Bill to the effect that those who did not act on knowledge of child sexual abuse would be guilty of an offence. Can the Tánaiste state when these amendments will be introduced? Will the Government investigate the fact that the Garda Commissioner knew about the activities of Canon Martin Clancy, as stated on pages 238-39 of the report?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy submit a question to the appropriate Minister.
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Will the Government investigate that matter? People had knowledge of this and did not act on it.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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A Criminal Justice Bill is before the House but has not yet reached Committee Stage. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will bring an amendment, similar to that suggested in the Murphy report, to the Cabinet within weeks. The amendment will then be introduced on Committee Stage so that we can pass the legislation quickly.
Richard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The gaming and lottery Bill has been on the Government's list of proposed legislation for close to ten years. At least a dozen casinos are in operation throughout the country. In every other country, these would be strictly regulated to maintain standards and protect revenue. We seem to be sitting on our hands in respect of this legislation. The Government states it cannot indicate a date when it will be published. Is the Government taking this seriously or is it allowing the matter to drift along unregulated? This is not a sector that should be totally unregulated.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I am not in a position to state when this legislation will be ready. I will discuss the matter with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Six years ago, the Government made a commitment in the Seanad that the medical practitioners Bill would be published by Christmas. As it still has not been published, would the Tánaiste consider publishing the heads of the Bill, as it is legislation of major importance?
Is the Minister for Health and Children aware the sole accident and emergency consultant in Kerry General Hospital, Mr. O'Rourke, is threatening to resign because he cannot get a registrar, the space or staff he needs?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation? To what legislation is Deputy McManus referring?
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Unfair Dismissals Act.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Harassment legislation might be a better idea. This highlights the lack of a forum for local accountability to deal with this type of situation.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest the Deputy submit a question directly to the Minister for Health and Children.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This matter is out of order on the Order of Business. The Chair has ruled on the matter.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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This is secondary legislation. I am entitled to ask the Minister questions on secondary legislation in the Health Act. Section 42 provided for the establishment of regional health forums. Almost a year later they have not been established. When will this happen?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Regarding legislation on medical practitioners, this will occur next year. I am making amendments to the heads of the Bill, which I am prepared to make available publicly to the Deputy and others.
I do not know the details of the situation in Kerry but I know that many consultants apply for positions in other parts of country and when they are appointed they have a habit of making statements on why they are leaving when they have been seeking a change for years.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Does the Tánaiste not listen to the reasons?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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No, that is a fact. I recently cleared the regulations for the regional forum. These must now be approved by the Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Health Bill was promised for this year but it has been postponed until next year, which is disappointing.
When Deputy Micheál Martin was Minister for Health and Children, he considered the matter of clinical drug trials serious enough to refer it to the Commission. The courts found he acted outside his powers, which is not surprising. Will the Government introduce primary legislation to deal with this situation, where children were experimented on by drug companies in the 1960s without the parents' permission? Will the Government brush this matter under the carpet and forget it?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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New legislation on clinical trials, applicable throughout the EU, was introduced last year. That applies to all clinical trials where informed consent must be given. The Irish Medicines Board legislation is before the House and changes are being made to regulatory matters in that legislation.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I am raising the matter of legislation that was put to one side and practices in the 1960s.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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That is no longer the practice. We have new legislation.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Will the Government introduce legislation to investigate this matter? The action taken was disallowed by courts because the then Minister exceeded his powers.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest the Deputy submit a question to the appropriate Minister.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I have done so. This relates to promised legislation.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The court decided that because of the state of health and the age of witnesses——
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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That is a separate issue. The Minister was acting beyond his powers.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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——it was not possible to have an inquiry. We cannot make that retrospectively legal.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Health and Children did try——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot discuss the matter further. Questions should relate to promised legislation.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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This is very serious. This legislation was promised. The Minister for Health and Children exceeded his powers and legislation was promised to deal with the matter. This has not been done. This matter of alleged of abuse of children in orphanages in the 1960s is being brushed under the carpet, the Government wants nothing to do with it.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Last March the House passed Second Stage of a Private Members' Bill, the Planning and Development (Amendment) Bill, in my name, addressing the problem of unfinished housing estates. The House decided to refer Committee Stage to the Select Committee on Environment and Local Government. I have been endeavouring to have Committee Stage taken in that committee but I am now informed that the Department will not be ready until some time next year. Will the Tánaiste intervene with the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to facilitate the early taking of Committee Stage of that important Bill?
On a related matter, when does the Government intend to introduce the legislation that will be required to abolish the charges made for making planning observations on planning applications?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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In both cases I will talk to the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and revert to the Deputy or have him revert to the Deputy. I am not in a position to answer.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Can the Tánaiste advise us if legislation will be required to establish a redress board for those women who were mutilated in the obstetrics and gynaecology unit at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, that matter has been dealt with already this morning.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am sorry I was not here at the time and I apologise.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot repeat it because the Deputy was not here.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Dáil starts at 10.30 a.m.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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If the Tánaiste is not in a position to answer my question I can only ask a second question regarding a response I received from her to a parliamentary question this week. Can the Tánaiste advise if the terms of reference for Mr. Patrick Declan Carey will be published when they are finally finalised?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter does not arise on the Order of Business, Deputy. I call Deputy Durkan.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste advise us when she expects those terms of reference to be agreed?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest the Deputy submits a question to the appropriate Minister.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I already have but I am not getting the further information I require.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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On promised legislation, will the Tánaiste use her good offices to consult with the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources with a view to putting on the Order Paper for debate the Postal Services (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill? There is an urgent need for such a debate given the possible loss of postal services in the very near future.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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That legislation has been withdrawn.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Bring in more legislation. What is the Tánaiste afraid of?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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There is plenty of legislation on industrial relations issues.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Much of the business this week is concentrated on the Ferns report. Might I ask the Tánaiste if she is happy that victims and people who have been before the Residential Institutions Redress Board and the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board are being referred to the Government Publications Office to purchase a report?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy, that matter does not arise on the Order of Business. I call Deputy Boyle.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Also, Members of this House who have been contacted by their constituents are being told that they can refer their constituents to purchase a copy. Is this the best way of proceeding in the Tánaiste's view?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise, Deputy. I suggest he submits a question to the Minister.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Can I clarify that matter because it might be helpful? For legal reasons we were advised by the Attorney General not to put the report on the website. That is the reason, unlike other reports, it has not been possible to do that. My Department sent a large number of copies of the report to the Ferns diocese and if the Deputy is anxious to receive copies for particular victims, I would be delighted to facilitate that.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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One would think that a widespread diffusion would be a necessary preliminary for a national audit. If there are people who want to know how cases are dealt with by such an inquiry, the best possible way of knowing is by reading the report. Will the Tánaiste agree to reconsider, as soon as possible, the widest possible diffusion and that where Departments are giving the information I have mentioned, that they will be referred to her Department to get a copy?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is normal, and I believe we have been reasonable in these circumstances, when a public report has been completed to make it available to interested and affected parties as far as possible, free of charge, and thereafter copies can be purchased from the Government Publications Office. If there are victims of sexual abuse who are interested in getting a copy of this report, within reason I would like to facilitate that if the Deputy would like to communicate with me.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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With reports indicating that average personal debt is likely to be 160% of average income and the effect of the Government policy of controlling the national debt by transferring such a debt onto individual citizens, what is the position in regard to consolidating the financial services Bills? That might present an opportunity for this House to suggest measures to control that debt in terms of individuals. It is listed on the programme as No. 52.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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That consolidation Bill will be brought forward next year but I am not certain it will deal with the issue the Deputy raised.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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When can we expect to see the Sea-Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction Bill again, which disappeared off the agenda following a meeting of the Fianna Fáil Party a few weeks ago? Is the Government or the Tánaiste's colleague planning any legislation on fireworks given the annual mayhem many communities must endure at this time of the year? Has the Cabinet made any decision or got a recommendation from the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources on an agreed mediator for the Corrib gas pipeline dispute? Apparently the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, made a speech yesterday on the local loop in telecommunications. Is the Minister and the Cabinet planning any major new Bill on communications in respect of the local broadband network?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The fisheries Bill is ordered for Second Stage. We have legislation on fireworks; it is a question of enforcing it. If new legislation is required, which I understand the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has mentioned, I am sure that would be forthcoming.
Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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The legislation has been in place for three years.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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A decision was made to appoint a mediator for the Corrib gas pipeline issue. On the Minister's speech yesterday at the conference in Dublin Castle, I am not certain that any legislation is necessary but we are all conscious of what we need to do in the area of telecommunications.
James Breen (Clare, Independent)
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Why is the Tánaiste refusing to meet the victims of the MRSA superbug that is rampant in our hospitals?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?
James Breen (Clare, Independent)
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The Tánaiste was asked for a meeting but she refused to agree to one. What is the reason for that? She came into this House last night and addressed everybody here but the most serious problem we have in this country——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, we are moving on to the next business, No. 19, Transfer of Execution of Sentences Bill 2003, Order for Report, Report and Final Stages——
James Breen (Clare, Independent)
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——is the MRSA superbug. Why has the Tánaiste refused to meet those people? Will she agree to meet them?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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——to adjourn at1.30 p.m.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is being disorderly and will have to leave the House if he wants to continue to be disorderly.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy knows he is out of order.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy can submit a question to the Minister——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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——or raise the matter on the Adjournment. There are a number of ways he can raise it.
James Breen (Clare, Independent)
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The Tánaiste is kicking for touch with the Health Service Executive.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is being totally disorderly now. We cannot have disorder on the Order of Business.
Cecilia Keaveney (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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It is a disgrace the Deputy was not thrown out of the House.