Dáil debates
Thursday, 13 October 2005
Order of Business.
10:30 am
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is proposed to take No. 5, Employment Permits Bill 2005 — Second Stage (resumed); No. 1, Parental Leave (Amendment) Bill 2004 [Seanad ] — Second Stage; and No. 15a, statements on the Asian earthquake and mudslides in Central America, to be taken not later than 1.30 p.m. and the order shall not resume thereafter.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the proceedings on No. 15a shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 3.30 p.m. today and the following arrangements shall apply: the statements of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party, the Labour Party and the Technical Group, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; the statements of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time; and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply which shall not exceed five minutes.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 15a, statements on the Asian earthquake and mudslides in Central America, agreed? Agreed.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are three matters I wish to raise on the Order of Business. The Tánaiste announced this week that all IT projects being undertaken by the Health Service Executive would have to be approved by her Department and the Department of Finance. Does that mean——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It does arise. Perhaps the Chair will allow me finish.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When will the changes to the Health Act to implement that requirement take place? The Health Service Executive is supposed to be independent. Professor Drumm is the accounting officer, yet the changes announced this week are to be approved by the Health Service Executive and the Department of Finance. When will the Health Act be amended to give effect to that matter?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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No legislation is promised.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, we cannot have a debate.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——where approval is required by the Department of Finance, the Department of Health and Children and the Health Service Executive. The legislation will need to be changed to give effect to the Tánaiste's commitment.
I have raised the following matter on a previous occasion. When will sections of the Children Act that relate to parental supervision orders, in particular sections 111, 112, and community sanctions, sections 115 and 132, that have not yet commenced, be implemented?
For the past three months the Fine Gael spokesperson on health and children, Deputy Twomey, has sought clarification arising from a parliamentary question in July 2005 on conflicting figures given by the Tánaiste about a cutback of 2 million home help hours. The Tánaiste promised to clarify that information on 20 July. Perhaps she will indicate when that information will be provided?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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There has not been any cutback in home help hours. I did clarify the matter at the Dáil committee. The total number of home help hours has been increased and the home help——
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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On a point of order, last week information was given to the House by the Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children on a 40% cut in the home help service in Kildare and I assume elsewhere. That is an official response from the Tánaiste's Department.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is not a point of order.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Minister is misleading the House inadvertently, or she does not bother informing herself.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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We are spending €120 million this year on home help.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It does not matter about the money because the Minister is cutting the hours by 40% in County Kildare. An 80 year old woman was affected by the cuts.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is out of order. The Tánaiste without interruption, please.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I repeat that home help hours in the country have not been cut.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The home help hours have been cut by 40% in County Kildare. The Minister's Department told me that last week.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Stagg to resume his seat. The Deputy can raise the matter in other ways if he thinks it is wrong. The Tánaiste has been called and she is entitled to be heard.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Minister is misleading the House.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I am not misleading the House.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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She has acted deliberately.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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This matter does not arise on the Order of Business. It is a matter for questions.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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It is the job of the Ceann Comhairle to make sure we know what the Tánaiste is saying.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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My job is to make sure that when I call the Tánaiste she is allowed to speak without interruption.
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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Is she not supposed to tell us the truth?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Some €120 million is being spent on home help this year, compared to a figure of £12 million when Deputy Stagg was last in office.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Fianna Fail)
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It is interesting, all the same.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Some £12 million.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The issue is the number of hours provided for home help.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Some £12 million.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Minister has cut the hours by 40% in County Kildare.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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As regards Deputy Kenny's question, I do not believe an amendment to the Health Service Executive Act is required because the Department has to approve both the corporate and capital plans for the HSE. In that context, arrangements are being made concerning technology projects. The Cabinet sub-committee on health had a very good meeting yesterday, which included Professor Drumm and the chairman of the HSE.
I will revert to the Deputy concerning the provisions in the child care Act.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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We have been seeking information about home helps for quite a long time and have been unable to get it.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Tánaiste should know this. She is the Minister and it might be of interest to her.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find another way of letting the Tánaiste know. It does not arise on the Order of Business.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I have three questions to ask the Tánaiste. Everybody in the House will agree that the framing of Mr. Frank Shortt was one of the most disgraceful miscarriages of justice and one of the worst examples of Garda abuse imaginable. He received an award yesterday which many people feel was relatively modest considering his ordeal. What action is being taken to bring those responsible to court? Perjury is a criminal offence.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It does not arise on the Order of Business. I suggest the Deputy should submit a question.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Forging evidence is a criminal offence.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the Order of Business?
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Tánaiste might like to take the opportunity to reply to that point.
My second question concerns a decision made by the Competition Authority on 11 October about waste management and the Greenstar company in particular. There is a strong statement from the Competition Authority——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question appropriate to the legislation?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should come to the legislation.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Competition Authority's statement calls for a radical overhaul of the regulatory system for household waste management by the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. That is a request from the Competition Authority.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should come to the legislation.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Will the Government introduce a new regulatory framework to ensure people do not get ripped off?
Since 2001, no information has been available on the extent of reports of child abuse. This matter is in the Tánaiste's area of responsibility. We no longer have that information, which is a matter of grave concern. What will the Tánaiste do to ensure the information on the extent of child abuse reporting is known publicly so we can see the extent of the issue and its impact on children?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's second question dealt with legislation. Is legislation promised?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Obviously, the Government will take seriously any recommendations from the Competition Authority about the regulatory framework. I am sure the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government will note the authority's report and if legislation is necessary it will be forthcoming.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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I respect your decision on Standing Order 31, a Cheann Comhairle, so I will ask a question on promised legislation. Will there be an opportunity, perhaps in dealing with the Natural Gas (Regulation) Bill, or hopefully before that, for the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, to make a statement explaining why information was not passed on?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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The legislation certainly does arise. I am asking about this legislation in the context of my earlier question. I am also asking about the Roads (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill, which needs to be amended to take into account the need for safety measures in dealing with bull bars on SUVs and other problems that have caused injury and fatalities on our roads.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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They are both for next year.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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There is no urgency.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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There will be another 400 people killed by then.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The broadcasting authority Bill is scheduled for publication in 2006. Just in case the general election takes place before that, does the Tánaiste have any plans to introduce the Bill so we can discuss it to put everything on a level playing pitch before the game starts?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That Bill was dealt with in the House on Tuesday.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Deputy Durkan raised that matter with me on Tuesday.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am anxious about it.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The answer is the same as on Tuesday — 2006.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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No change since Tuesday.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thought there might have been a change of heart.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Yesterday, I tabled Parliamentary Question No. 190 to the Taoiseach and received the reply around 6 p.m. yesterday. I understand the reply to the question was made available to some journalists as early as 4.30 p.m. yesterday and was the subject of a briefing. Is it in order for replies to questions to be released to journalists or anyone else before they are made available to the Members who ask the questions? In your capacity of protecting the interests of Members of the House, will you, a Cheann Comhairle, seek an explanation from the Taoiseach as to why that was done?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It would certainly not be a matter for the Chair to seek an explanation from a member of the Government. I will check in my office to make sure there was no leak there, but I would be absolutely certain there was not. As far as the Government is concerned, however, it is not a matter for the Chair.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach had to get the news out before the match.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is a matter for the Chair.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to raise it with the Government.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I have no issue of complaint or criticism about your office, a Cheann Comhairle.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am informed that the reply was issued by the Taoiseach, or through the Taoiseach's office, to journalists about an hour and a half before I got it. It was the subject of a briefing. It is not acceptable that parliamentary questions are the subject of spinning by the line Department before they are issued to the Members who ask the questions.
Brendan HowlinBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There has to be an explanation for that.
Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The explanation is that the Taoiseach was going to the match.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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One would need a permanent team of plumbers here to deal with all the leaks. Legislation to establish the health information and quality authority, and the Irish social services inspectorate on a statutory basis was promised for this year. I note, however, that it is now scheduled for 2006. On the last occasion I raised this delay, the Tánaiste said it was due to the fact that legislation was necessary to process the establishment of the HSE. She said the health Bill and other Bills, including the nurses Bill, were being delayed as a result. The HSE is now long established so I would like to know what is the barrier to progressing this legislation in the Department of Health and Children.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Tánaiste to deal with the question on legislation.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Tánaiste advise the House when the health Bill and the nurses Bill will be presented here?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I think I explained this to the Deputy and other Members during question time on the last occasion. It is because of a change concerning the social services inspectorate. The heads of the Bill will be published this session so that Members of the House and others can have an opportunity to comment on them. I am hoping to present the final legislation next March.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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What about the nurses Bill?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Next year.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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Earlier this year, the Tánaiste gave a commitment to review nursing home legislation, which was to come before us in this session.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It will be.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That question was dealt with yesterday.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I have not asked this question yet, but I am asking it now. Will the Tánaiste examine deaths in nursing homes where coroners have not been informed?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I suggest the Deputy should submit a written question to the Tánaiste.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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In one particular case, two people were buried without the coroner being informed, and no death certificates were issued or sent to the health board.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find another way of raising the matter. It does not arise on the Order of Business.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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It was five months later before the death certificate was issued in one case. The Tánaiste should examine the issue as a matter of extreme urgency.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Stagg is patiently waiting to make his contribution.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy did not ask a question.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should submit a parliamentary question to the line Minister.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not appropriate on the Order of Business.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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This relates to a promise for legislation which the Tánaiste did not keep. I am bringing it to her attention that people have died in nursing homes——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Chair has ruled on the matter.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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——where the rules have not been obeyed and coroners have not been informed of deaths.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Stagg has been called.
Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
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I do not wish to be disorderly. I will resume my seat, but——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is being disorderly and the Chair will need to deal with disorder.
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Given the 40% cut in home help service in County Kildare, I presume the same is true elsewhere, given that acute hospital beds and long-stay beds are being used unnecessarily as a result and given that Department of Health and Children money has been wasted on computers, does the Tánaiste intend to introduce a revised Estimate for her Department and the HSE——
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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——to allow home help service payments to be made?
Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)
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The Tánaiste might want another concept.
Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Lynch has had many different concepts with all the different parties she has been in.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Minister to be orderly and allow Deputy Joe Higgins to speak without interruption.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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We would have liked to have heard more from the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment last night on the issue I wish to raise. He is very voluble this morning. After three hours of Private Members' debate on the initiative of the Independent Deputies and me, we still do not know whether the Government intends to introduce legislation to outlaw the disgusting strategy of Irish Ferries to replace 543 trade-unionised workers——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not necessary to debate the issue again this morning.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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——with exploited labour.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It was debated for two nights this week.
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will we have legislation?
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will the Tánaiste make up for her own instrumentality in bringing exploiters like Gama here by at least trying to save the Irish Ferries workers? Is the answer "no"?
Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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What is the answer, a Cheann Comhairle?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste answered the Deputy.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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There will be ongoing legislation——
Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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The Tánaiste should stand up.
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should sit down when the Tánaiste is answering.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I will not respond to Deputy Stagg in the way he would want me to. There will be ongoing legislation, but no specific legislation on the issue Deputy Joe Higgins has raised.
Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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In a number of Government legislation programmes in the past four or five Dáil sessions, the Abbotstown Sports Campus Development Authority Bill has been listed in section A with top priority. Will the Tánaiste give a commitment that this Bill will be introduced in this session?
Seán Ryan (Dublin North, Labour)
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She will need to ask the Taoiseach.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I understand that is the intention.
Olivia MitchellJimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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In the past five publications it was listed as a number one priority.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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The original agenda for today listed the Sea-Fisheries and Maritime Jurisdiction Bill for discussion at 1.30 p.m. Has the Government now withdrawn the Bill following the committee meeting yesterday and a stormy meeting of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party?
Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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There are more storms in the Labour Party at the moment.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste should be allowed to answer without interruption.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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It is a long time since I attended a stormy meeting of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party. I understand there will be legislation in this area in due course.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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Given the threats facing our tourism industry in the next ten years and given the huge litter problem the country faces, an issue my colleagues and I raised in the House 18 months ago, will the Tánaiste give a commitment that legislation will be introduced for a refundable deposit on bottles and cans, which would halve the litter problem overnight and would not cost the State a penny?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I understand that legislation in that area would be illegal under the packaging directive.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The Medical Council was established by the Medical Practitioners Act 1978. It controls the actions of doctors, consultants etc. When will the medical practitioners Bill be introduced so that we can discuss the role of that body?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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We will have that legislation next year.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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When will Ireland ratify the United Nations Convention against Corruption, which, having achieved the appropriate number of ratifications, will come into effect on 15 December? Does the Government intend to ratify the International Convention on the Protection of the Rights of All Migrant Workers and Members of Their Families? Ireland has ratified neither. Only two European countries, Hungary and France, have ratified the former and no other country from the G8 has done so. On the latter while we are discussing partial protection for migrant workers, we have not ratified the main United Nations instrument. Does the Government intend to proceed with ratification shortly in this session or even in the lifetime of this Dáil?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I know the Deputy raised this matter last week with the Minister for Foreign Affairs. We will need to revert to the Minister to communicate with the Deputy.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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The Minister for fornica——
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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At the rate of Government expenditure, we are going to need ten months.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Fianna Fail)
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I wonder who would get that job.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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The Minister for Foreign Affairs indicated in a letter to me that he had written to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, which, I am sure, was a suitable correspondence between the two Ministers. He had asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to indicate when the legislation would be prepared. Can the Tánaiste find out from the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if it is intended to ratify the United Nations Convention against Corruption?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I will ask the Ministers to revert to the Deputy.
Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I apologise for my misuse of language which was a consequence of Ireland's loss in yesterday's soccer match.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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Section D of the legislation programme contains a number of Bills which seem to be in cold storage. When does the Government intend to introduce them?
The Money Advice and Budgeting Service Bill, published in 2002, has yet to have a Second Stage debate. We have already passed the Education for Persons with Special Educational Needs Act and the Disability Act but the Comhairle (Amendment) Bill, which was meant to be a cornerstone of the Government's policy on disability, has yet to have a Second Stage debate. The International Criminal Court Bill was published in 2003 following a referendum held in 2001 and is still awaiting committee time. The National Economic and Social Development Office Bill was published in 2002. The Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service completed Committee Stage in July and yet we have no indication as to when the legislation will be finalised in the House. Why is no priority being given to these important Bills?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy should ask his Whip to raise the matter at the Whips' meeting.
Dan Boyle (Cork South Central, Green Party)
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I am the Whip and I am asking.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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The Deputy should raise the matter among his fellow Whips.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will it be necessary to amend the legislation regarding the HSE given that the Tánaiste has advised me that she and her adviser have held meetings in the James Connolly Hospital in Blanchardstown with private developers——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——with a view to developing a private hospital in the grounds? I did not understand that Ministers and their advisers met private developers.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made her point. Is legislation promised?
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I thought the development of hospitals was a matter for the HSE to manage. The Tánaiste is in direct negotiations with developers.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should submit a parliamentary question to the Tánaiste and Minister for Health and Children.
11:00 am
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I am not in negotiation with anybody. It is a matter for the HSE to pursue specific proposals with hospitals subject to public tendering, as the Deputy is aware.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It is most unusual for a Minister to meet private developers and their adviser to discuss the development of a private hospital in the grounds of James Connolly Memorial Hospital in Blanchardstown. I have never heard of Ministers publicly acknowledging such a meeting as the Tánaiste did yesterday in her answer to me.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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I have met developers many times over the past year and I would be a very naive and foolish member of the Government if I were not aware of the proposals which people have. The selection of any particular project is a matter subject to public tendering and for the HSE, as the Deputy knows.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What was the Tánaiste doing at the meeting?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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With regard to the project, I also met 12 of the hospital consultants, the director of nursing and the representative of the board of management.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Minister was at a separate meeting with the developer.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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At the request of the hospital, I met the developers to see a proposal they wanted to put forward. Is there something wrong with that?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy and the Tánaiste should both return to the Order of Business.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Ministers talked to the consultants but nobody in Blanchardstown was consulted.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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That is not so.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I am talking of the people, the public and the patients on the trolleys.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not having a debate on that matter.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will this action require an amendment to the HSE legislation? It is a valid question. This is no way of doing business.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The only appropriate question deals with legislation.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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There is no amendment necessary to have meetings with anyone. We have laid down the policy in this area and it was published in July.
Seán Ryan (Dublin North, Labour)
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Over the past year or so, the Tánaiste has given certain commitments or dates with regard to the introduction of the pharmacy Bill. I note that two Bills are involved. When is it envisaged that they will come before the House?
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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Both of them will come before the House next year.
Mary Harney (Dublin Mid West, Progressive Democrats)
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No. The simpler one, with regard to fitness to practice and ending the derogation, will come first.