Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Ba mhaith liom fáilte a chur roimh an Taoiseach agus an Rialtas tar éis saoire ró-fhada. Tá a fhios ag gach duine thart faoin tír nach bhfuil an Rialtas seo ag comhlíonadh na ngeallúintí a chuir siad os comhair an phobail agus go bhfuil a ré ag teacht chun deiridh.

This is the first Leaders' Questions in the new session and there is a number of serious issues that could be discussed. We will have an opportunity to make comments in respect of Northern Ireland and decommissioning later. There are also issues in regard to the disgraceful and obscene waste of public money as shown in the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Questions must be answered also about the issue of Thornton Hall during today's Private Members' debate.

I wish to deal with a particular matter in a constructive way and to suggest the Taoiseach's intervention in a manner which might bring about a break in the related impasse, which is of growing concern. The Taoiseach is aware that more than 90 days ago, five men were committed to prison for failing to abide by the terms of a court injunction. The issues that gave rise to that imprisonment are complex and the resolution of the dispute between the company involved, Shell, and the five men from Rossport will not be easy. Efforts have been made by a number of individuals and authorities to break this impasse and to deal with the issue of safety reviews so that the question of the safety of the pipeline can be answered one way or the other. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, must make a decision in respect of this at a later date.

I have spoken to the imprisoned men and their families, Shell representatives and anybody else associated with this matter. I have tried to put forward constructive proposals that will break the impasse. There is now a complete contradiction and a polarisation of views in that the company says it cannot lift the injunction and the men say they will not purge their contempt. I gave the latter a legal perspective last week based on a case of civil contempt.

We have had intractable problems in this State in the past. Men such as Mr. George Mitchell and General John de Chastelain were called in and were able, over a period, to resolve issues of fundamental difference. Will the Taoiseach, as leader of the Government, involve himself in this matter? Perhaps he might appoint a mediator of considerable standing, acceptable to both sides, who would set about breaking this impasse. It will not be solved by hysterics but only by dialogue, discussion and compromise. The Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, on behalf of the Government, must make a fundamental decision one way or the other.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Throughout the summer Deputy Kenny has adopted a constructive approach at all times. I accept the way he has put the current situation in this issue. He is correct that it cannot be resolved other than by means of a thoughtful process of trying to engage. Needless to say, I have been dealing with this issue throughout July and since 25 August, when I returned, and I have talked with the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey about it. There has been no Cabinet meeting since the end of June at which it has not been discussed in one form or another. I regret that anyone should be committed to prison as a result of his or her opposition to the development of the Corrib gas field. I accept that it has been a traumatic time for the men and their families.

Deputy Kenny knows that we cannot intervene in a decision of the High Court. However, every effort has been made to create the conditions — efforts which Deputy Kenny is asking me to continue — that would allow them to purge their contempt. The Minister, who maintained total consultation with me, initially made contact through an intermediary with the five men in prison to discuss their concerns. He proposed a safety review by an independent body as a response to those concerns because the initial part involved safety issues. Despite this and his willingness to meet them if they purged their contempt, the men decided not to do so.

The Minister then, in conjunction with the Cabinet, ordered an additional comprehensive safety review of the onshore upstream gas pipeline to be carried out by independent internationally recognised experts. Advantica was identified as the successful bidder and was appointed in the third week of August. The company is a world leader in development and application. As Deputy Kenny is aware, the safety review is ongoing. An issue of particular concern to local residents is proximity and that is being looked at.

There will be a two-day public hearing shortly. People with strong views may put their concerns forward at that. We have made numerous attempts at finding a breakthrough in this. We will continue to do so. Most of these efforts are on the public record, although perhaps not all are. We have tried to find a way to deal with the issue satisfactorily.

Our main concern has been to put monitoring and verification procedures in place to ensure that the developer complies with all the legal consent issues. There has been a long chapter and verse in this. Yesterday, the Minister spent three hours in the committee discussing this. There is no need for me to repeat it here. We will continue to seek constructive ways forward. I and Deputy Kenny, who has been very constructive in this, have attempted through mediators to find a way to break the impasse which will not interfere with the High Court decision but, through no fault of our own, have not yet been successful.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There are a number of other persons of sufficient stature who would be willing to become involved in this if the imprimatur of the Government were given. It is a fact that this was badly handled by the local authority in some aspects. It was very badly handled by the Government and by Shell and it has led to a complete breakdown in communications. It is impossible for me to express the frustration and anxiety of the families involved in this.

This is a national question in terms of energy that should be harnessed without any impact of the health or safety of citizens. No project is worth that. The Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, Deputy Ó Cuív, promised publicly last year to provide money from his Department to bring a pipeline to Belmullet. Other Ministers promised spur lines all over the west. These represent broken promises by the Government.

Is the Taoiseach happy that the transfer of authority from the Government and Bord Gáis to a private company such as Shell is constitutional given the inviolability of property rights under the Constitution? In other words, was proper procedure followed in every instance and does it stand up legally?

In the interests of attempting to create dialogue and an environment in which progress may be made so that the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, will be allowed to make a decision one way or the other, will the Taoiseach consider the appointment of a mediator who is of sufficient stature, acceptable to both parties and may be able to break this impasse?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Gas (Amendment) Act 2000 provides the legislative basis. This has been discussed many times and our advice throughout has been that it is totally compatible with the legal position.

On the safety issues, I will not rehearse all that the Minister said yesterday but at all times during the entire process, all the necessary protections were put in place. People will have the opportunity to put forward their views during the two-day public hearing in County Mayo which will be held on 12 and 13 October and will be chaired by John Gallagher, senior counsel. There have been a number of views. We and Advantica have gone to great lengths to ensure that all procedures have been complied with.

On the question of a mediator, Deputy Kenny will be aware that various groups and individuals from the church, community, politics and other areas have been tried. There is no doubt that to avoid intervening with a decision of the High Court, which we cannot do, a mediator would be very useful if both sides were agreeable to such an initiative. However, indications until now have been that the men will not engage until they are out of jail. That does not resolve the difficulty but that is the position. If Deputy Kenny is indicating that the men are perhaps willing to work with a mediator without conditions, I am willing to make such a move. That has been my position all along. I have continued to engage throughout this and any new initiatives that can help to resolve this unfortunate situation will be welcomed.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach detail his Government's plans to deal with the displacement of 543 workers by Irish Ferries Limited? He should have a note of it because he will remember this was a significant company which served the strategic interests of this country well before it was sold off to friends of Fianna Fáil by the then Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan. Having gotten away with it in the case of the displacement of workers on the MV Normandy, the company now proposes to make redundant the entire crew and to register the vessel in the Bahamas under a flag of convenience. As a result, 543 workers are displaced.

I read in the newspapers that it is proposed to give them €6 million in taxpayers' money as a contribution towards the redundancy fund. The unions and wider economic interests want to know what action the Government intends to take. What are the implications of this for social partnership? This is a race to the bottom. We have seldom seen anything so blatant as dismissing an entire workforce in order to employ slave labour from outside the State at €3.60 per hour.

The Taoiseach has often told us how expert he is in industrial relations, which he is. I always thought that, in order to be redundant, the job could not be filled. However, these 543 jobs are being filled. Is the Government satisfied that they are eligible for redundancy and that the taxpayers' money which is proposed to be paid into the fund is appropriate? Has advice been taken from the Attorney General on that particular issue?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am as concerned as the Deputy about the particular point he has made whether the former workers are legally entitled to redundancy if the jobs are going to be filled again. I am seeking advice on that issue. I am not satisfied about this within the normal terms that I would consider it but we are taking legal advice. In the context of the international situation of workers on the sea and the flag of convenience, the jobs will be replaced. There is no doubt that is what the company is about. Given the ramifications for social partnership, a meeting of the national implementation body under Sustaining Progress is taking place today. However, I do not wish to prejudice its outcome. The Government discussed the matter this morning, as it has done in recent days.

A number of public policy matters arise in the context of the situation that has developed. The Government has invested significantly in the support and training of the Irish maritime sector, as befits an island nation. The reported decision of Irish Ferries to reflag its vessels operating on the central corridor of the Irish Sea is a blow to the national interest. That is how I see this issue. Irish Ferries has benefited significantly from the overall development of the economy and the increase in both passenger and freight traffic which it has generated.

While acknowledging the competitive pressure from other carriers and modes of travel the Government's view is that Irish Ferries is an integral part of the Irish economy and has benefited significantly from its development. That has been significantly aided by times of stability and managed change which has characterised the overall approach to industrial relations for many years. The company's decision to step outside the Irish labour market to employ staff, reputedly below the minimum wage — I cannot prove that but I have been informed that is what the company is at — is inconsistent with its relationship with the economy. I make that point strongly.

I do not consider the company to be some Fianna Fáil company, as the Deputy derogatorily said. I do not know who is involved, except that I know the name of the chief executive.

While criticism may rightly be made of the approach of the unions in the company in the past, the manner in which this matter has been conducted by the company in recent days is deplorable. I would not defend for one second the manner in which the company has acted. It has told its staff of more than 500 the terms, that if they do not get out, they will lose their benefits and God knows what will happen to them, and that when they are out the door in a few days the jobs will be filled by non-nationals from God knows where and on conditions that nobody knows. That is what the company is at. It is sharp practice which is totally unacceptable in the Irish labour context and is using the flag of convenience. Perhaps many of the workers will see the package as a good one but I do not know the position on that.

I have written to the chief executive of the company today pointing out most of those points to him and saying I do not accept the way the company has acted in this matter. Whether we can stop it other than on the issue of redundancies is a matter we are examining.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I welcome the Taoiseach's forthright condemnation of what is going on. If the Taoiseach maintains this approach for the rest of the term, we could have useful exchanges here. At the end of all that, what does he intend to do about the issue? The last time the national implementation body met, Irish Ferries did not even attend. If the Taoiseach does not know any of the people in Irish Ferries, perhaps he would ask Gerry Hickey who knows all about it, although in fairness it did not happen while he was in the company. He will brief the Taoiseach on the pedigree of the people making these decisions.

On the question of displacement, is the Taoiseach concerned about the implications for social partnership and what will happen elsewhere? While I welcome migrant labour here, what will happen when the building industry winds down a little and when it seeks to displace workers in permanent jobs on trade union rates? What will happen if Aer Lingus wants to follow this example?

Whereas the Taoiseach is quite forthright in saying this is sharp practice and is unacceptable, I note that IBEC made a very forthright statement, to my surprise, supporting the disgraceful decision of Irish Ferries which was accidentally exposed during the summer as having employed a Filipino hairdresser at €1 per hour. One would not find such conditions in any slave factory in Dickens's time. It is utterly unacceptable. If this were to become the pattern of even a small number of other companies with the blessing of IBEC and the helplessness of the Government, it would be outrageous.

When is the advice from the Attorney General likely to be forthcoming? It would be an appalling scenario if it turns out that the men in Irish Ferries, and they are largely men, who believe in good faith that they will get redundancy after many years of service are not eligible. That matter needs to be clarified before Mr. Rothwell is allowed to go his merry way in establishing this disgraceful precedent in Irish industrial relations.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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For those who may not know Gerry Hickey, and I thought there was a rule that we do not mention people who are not present in the House, he is my adviser who worked with the company ten years ago.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I mentioned him favourably.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I accept that, but he worked with the company ten years ago and what influence he would have on Mr. Rothwell or any of his colleagues now is irrelevant.

The company states that it has a serious problem with its cost base. It is in all our interests that be addressed urgently. I urge the company, as I would any company that has a problem with its cost base, to work with the unions, to engage realistically over a period of weeks with the support of the industrial relations machinery of the State and agree on measures to protect the company's interests while honouring the terms of Sustaining Progress.

I do not have an issue what Deputy Rabbitte said. Where I do have an issue is if one is a member of IBEC and negotiates Sustaining Progress, which has been dramatically successful in preventing strikes in recent years, the minute one has a problem one tears up the agreement, ignores the normal industrial relations channel and does not turn up at the Labour Court. The reason I have not called——

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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What is the Taoiseach doing about it?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering Deputy Rabbitte, and speaking to the company at the same time if I can do that, which it is perhaps useful to do. We have a collective industrial relations system and it is not done by diktat or Government enforcement. It is and has been done since 1946 on the basis of people coming together and it has worked fairly well for almost 60 years. That is what happens.

On the question of redundancy, I hope we can have an answer on that matter. This is a real issue. The basis for redundancy is that a job is gone and the State pays a contribution. In this case it is clear the company is using the flag of convenience to let a workforce go and replace it with non-nationals who will be paid wages which fall far below the statutory national minimum wage. This is not acceptable to the Labour Court, the national implementation body or whatever way we engage with IBEC. We are endeavouring to get the company to see there is another way of resolving the issue. If it refuses to go to the Labour Court and to the national implementation body, we must look at the redundancy issue. It is sad that a large company, a member of the national employers group which is part of the agreement, adopts such an attitude. Without stating it any more strongly, I would be very disappointed if a serious company did that.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It is a national outrage that five Rossport men have been in jail for 91 days. Does the Taoiseach feign innocence as if he were Prime Minister of the outer Hebrides, not the Republic of Ireland which happens to include County Mayo?

It is true that it was Shell Oil that got the High Court to do its dirty work but the Taoiseach and his Government carry full responsibility. The Government gave this multinational corporation the power to trample brutally on the safety of a small rural community. When it resisted, the Government allowed five representatives to be put into what I can only call indefinite preventive detention.

In 1989, the Taoiseach's crooked colleague, the former Deputy and Minister, Ray Burke, gave the oil corporations a fabulous resource of gas for not a penny in royalties to the Irish people. In 1992, the Taoiseach, as Minister for Finance, gave them fabulous tax breaks. In early 2001, the Government gave the multinationals the power to expropriate the land of smallholders in Erris without consultation, any planning process or any proper environmental statement. Therefore, the Government has put the smallholders of Erris, including the area's boglands and estuaries, at the mercy of a multinational corporation which has shown itself to be merciless in how it deals with such communities in other countries in its greed for profits which amounted to an incredible €18,000 million last year alone.

When people look back on the history of rural Ireland in 2005, they will not remember the Taoiseach's flashy display of green wellies on the ploughing fields of east Cork, but the abject betrayal of a small rural community in County Mayo. The Taoiseach feigns innocence, however, as if he had been asleep since 1989, as soundly perhaps as his hapless Minister of State, Deputy Conor Lenihan, on a recent Tuesday morning. At least he was not pretending to be asleep like the Taoiseach.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's two minutes have concluded.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The keys to the jail cells of the Rossport five are in the Taoiseach's hands. All he has to do is pick up the phone and make Shell lift the injunction, thus letting the five decent men home to their families. He should make Shell process the gas where it will not destroy the communities and the environment. While he is at it, the Taoiseach should tear up the contracts which have sold out this fabulous resource to the major corporations. Let us begin a process of developing this resource for the benefit of the people, not the bloated profits of Shell and others.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As usual, Deputy Joe Higgins knows that what he says is not true.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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What is not true? Tell me.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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All of it.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Most of what the Deputy said. They got the consents under the Foreshore Acts, Gas Acts, Continental Shelf Acts——

Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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It is nine kilometres inland.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy Sargent, it is Deputy Joe Higgins's question.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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——Energy (Miscellaneous) Acts, Mayo County Council and An Bord Pleanála.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It is nine kilometres inland.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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All of those permissions were given by Acts that were passed by this House of which the Deputy is a Member. He is making a poor show of playing to the Gallery in trying to say that Shell moved without regard to these Acts.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach should answer the question.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering the question. As regards the second issue raised by the Deputy, the five people concerned are in jail because of a High Court decision. There is a separation of powers in this State between the Executive and the Judiciary and despite the Deputy's attitude, I would not do anything to breach a decision of the courts. As regards helping through mediation, I have already answered a constructive question from Deputy Kenny on that point.

As regards previous decisions, in 1992 the Government revised the licensing terms in order to stimulate exploration with the objective of increasing the State's petroleum supply from indigenous resources. These have been accepted by all Governments in the interim. Petroleum leases enjoy a special tax regime and are not subject to royalties or production related levies in this country. Despite the allegations that the terms are overly generous, there has been a severely low level of take up here compared to other countries. Therefore, the view that these great terms were given and then used and abused is just not true. This has been covered over a period of 13 or 14 years.

We will do anything we can to help constructively. What the Deputy has said is entirely misleading and untrue. He should have thought of a better case over the summer than to come to the House and purport all these things happened outside the terms of the law to these unfortunate people who are arguing a case.

The application to the Department was for an onshore terminal and the assessment was carried out on that basis. All the environmental and safety studies, up to the current ones, are based on that, as the Deputy knows.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It was the Taoiseach's Government that provided every instrument by which the Shell Corporation is now acting. The Government gave them the power and therefore the Taoiseach carries a responsibility. Let us have done with the red herring of interfering with the courts. If, tomorrow, Shell so asks the President of the High Court, who incidentally threatened to imprison every landholder in Mayo if they did not carry out the court's writ, the injunction could then be withdrawn. It is as simple as that. Why does the Taoiseach not pick up the phone after this debate and ask the chief executive of Shell to do just that? The men could then return home and discussions on the situation could begin. At a later stage, discussions could be held with Shell as to how the company could process its gas where it would not threaten communities.

Independent Deputies visited the men in jail last week. Deputy Cowley has worked tirelessly for the people of Erris. I visited Erris and Rossport last week and I can tell the House that, although they are suffering, the determination of the community, including the families of the men in jail, is unbreakable. They will not allow their communities to be put upon in a way that threatens their environment and, potentially in certain circumstances, their lives.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy's time has concluded.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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In this Dáil session, we will not let up in placing responsibility where it belongs, which is with the Taoiseach. Next Saturday, even if the Taoiseach is not listening, I hope people will come in their thousands to the protest rally in Dublin in support of the Rossport five and the issues they have raised.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call on the Taoiseach to reply. The Deputy's time has long since concluded.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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As soon as this debate has finished, will the Taoiseach ring Shell?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Because the Minister believes the men had a point on the safety issue, he ordered a comprehensive safety review of the onshore, upstream gas pipeline to be carried out by Advantica, independent, internationally recognised experts.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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That is only a whitewash.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The safety review will examine critically all the relevant documentation relating to design and construction.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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That is a complete whitewash.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Cowley to resume his seat. There is no provision for any other Member, except Deputy Joe Higgins, to contribute on this question.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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But Ceann Comhairle, these people are in jail——

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask the Deputy to resume his seat while the Chair is on its feet. Deputy Joe Higgins submitted a question and he is entitled to hear an answer.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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These people have been in jail for over 90 days.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It appears to the Chair that the Deputy wishes to leave the House. He is being totally disorderly. I ask the Deputy to resume his seat.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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It is a scandal.

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It appears to the Chair the Deputy wants to make an issue of this by being put out of the House. If he wants to leave the House the Chair will facilitate him. It is his choice. I call on Deputy Cowley to leave the House for being disorderly.

Jerry Cowley (Mayo, Independent)
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It is a disgrace and the Taoiseach should deal with it. He should not wring his hands and say he can do nothing. He is not doing enough.

Noel Dempsey (Meath, Fianna Fail)
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Now he will not be able to talk for them in here. It will be no good outside.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The safety review will examine critically all the relevant documentation relating to the design, construction and operation of the pipeline and the associated facilities, which was the point that Deputy Joe Higgins made.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will the Taoiseach pick up the phone to Shell?

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Advantica has been asked to identify any deficiencies concerning safety and to make any recommendations on how to deal with these if they can be identified and remedied. The Minister has brought forward the review due to all the issues of concern that people had. A particular issue of concern to the local residents has been the proximity of the pipeline to inhabited dwellings. This will also be addressed in that report. The residents and, I hope, other Deputies who wish to go to the hearing and put their points as they did here yesterday during a three-hour debate at the committee will be able to do so. The two-day hearing will take place next week.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will the Taoiseach phone Shell?

Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should allow the Taoiseach to continue.

Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If anything can be done constructively on a mediator, we will certainly do that. However, it cannot be done by people being released first. If we can help, we will.