Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Question 146: To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the situation regarding the unsecured creditors of a company (details supplied) in County Wicklow; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25443/05]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The determination of any payments due to creditors of Irish Fertiliser Industries is a matter solely for the liquidator. The position of unsecured creditors can be determined only by the liquidator when all the assets of the company have been realised and all liabilities established. The liquidator has made considerable progress in realising the assets of the company and establishing the full extent of its liabilities.

At this stage, the main production sites at Arklow and Cork remain the principal assets yet to be realised. Contracts have been signed for the sale of both these sites and it is hoped to close the sales in the near future. The statement of affairs presented to the creditors' meeting in November 2002 estimated the amount due to unsecured creditors was €72.7 million. Of this, €34.5 million relates to shareholders' loans which the shareholders, ICI and the State have agreed in principle to subordinate in favour of the other unsecured creditors. This action on the part of the shareholders will substantially increase the rate of dividend payable in due course to the other unsecured creditors.

While I do not have an up-to-date estimate of the amounts due to unsecured creditors, I am aware the liquidator has recognised significant additional liabilities to former employees in respect of contractual entitlements to redundancy terms. In addition, the liquidator has accepted, in principle, that the trustees of the Richardsons superannuation scheme, covering the employees in Belfast, have an admissible claim on the liquidation but the quantum of that claim remains to be established.

The liquidator is engaged in discussions with the trustees of the scheme with a view to agreeing the quantum of the claim and hopes to do so soon. The liquidator hopes to be in a position to make at least an interim payment to creditors before the end of the year.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister agree that almost three years to the day after this company, in which the Government was the major shareholder, went into liquidation that the unsecured creditors do not know how much they will receive following the Minister's reply? Much was said in the last Dáil session about the way Gama Construction treated its workers but the way the Government has treated the workers and unsecured creditors in IFI in Arklow is outrageous.

Will the Minister give some indication when the unsecured creditors might know when they will receive some payment? Hundreds of thousands of euro are owed to small family businesses around the greater Arklow area. I am sure it is no different in the area around Cobh. The Minister stated he did not know the total figure owed to unsecured creditors. I would like to know why, three years later, we still do not know that figure, which I am sure could be calculated quite easily if the Government, a major shareholder in the company, inquired of the people behind it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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About what?

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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About the total owed to the unsecured creditors. The Minister in his reply said the Government did not know that figure. I find it quite amazing that three years later we still do not know. Does the Minister think it right and proper that the Government, a major shareholder, should treat employees and unsecured creditors in such a manner? What total is owed to unsecured creditors and when might they expect to receive that money?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's remarks are unacceptable and untenable.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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In line with the Minister's behaviour.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No. The Government has not treated workers in an outrageous manner. Through statutory redundancy entitlements and payments from the fund quite substantial sums have been made available by the two shareholders. Employees will have received an average payment of up to €50,000. Whether one agrees with the rate or not, one cannot describe it as outrageous. Equally, one must accept the reality that the Government is not the liquidator.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I would like——

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would love such complex processes involving liquidators to be expedited, but there are key legal issues to be determined. The Government is not the liquidator in this case. For whatever political agenda, people may try to ignore the liquidator, remove him from the process and replace him with the "Government", which they would like to blame for everything. That too is neither tenable nor acceptable.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister clearly stated that he was unhappy with the slow pace and that he would like to see things hurried up. As Minister he can amend the legislation. Does he believe the legislation is serving unsecured creditors in a correct and fair manner if, three years later, they have still not been paid for goods and services they supplied to a company of which the Government was a major shareholder? If not, will he make a commitment to change the legislation rather than hide behind the liquidator?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We were asked to bring the Deputy up to date regarding the situation of unsecured creditors. I have done that in——

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Minister does not know the figure or when the money will be paid.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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——the reply. We are not the liquidator and do not get involved in the process, to which a range of legal issues relates. The Deputy knows that as well as I do.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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We are no further on than three years ago.