Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Question 25: To ask the Minister for Transport the number and details of private operator bus passenger licences for new routes awarded by his Department's licensing unit each year from 2002 to date; the number of such requests awaiting a decision; his Department's policy toward the role of private bus operators in providing commuter services in major urban centres; the number and location of new routes commenced by Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann each year from 2002; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21508/05]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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My Department was unable at short notice to collate the information requested for the years prior to 2004. This information will be forwarded directly to the Deputy as soon as possible.

The numbers of passenger road licences issued to private operators for new routes and the numbers of new routes by Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann noted each year from 2004 to date are as follows: 138 passenger road licences were issued to private bus operators for new routes in 2004; there were 24 notifications to State bus companies for new routes; and in 2005 so far, 72 licences have been issued to private operators and there have been two notifications to the State for new routes.

The information provided relates only to new routes. There may be cases where existing routes have been amended to include new services, re-alignment of an existing route or to extend the existing route, for example to a university, and this information is not included in the records supplied. However, the Department will be happy to forward this information to the Deputy should she require it.

The commencement of new routes by State bus companies is an operational matter for Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann. However, the information given includes the proposed implementation date and the date the proposed route was noted by my Department. I can advise the Deputy that as of 17 June 2005, there is a total of 74 applications for passenger licences for new routes on hand in my Department. These applications are at various stages of processing. In the case of two applications carried over from 2003, my Department has had extensive correspondence with the applicants and they are now at an advanced stage of consideration. I expect decisions will be given shortly. Of the remaining number, 24 applications on hand were carried over from 2004.

The Road Transport Act 1932 provides the legislative basis for entry to the public transport market by private bus operators. In accordance with this legislation, private operators are licensed to operate coach and bus services within the State. At any time there are approximately 500 licences held by private bus operators for a range of public bus services including regular scheduled services, school and college services, occasional bus services for special events such as concerts, city tours and so on.

My Department is required, under the provisions of the Road Transport Act, to apply a range of criteria in considering applications. These include a public interest test and issues such as frequency, capacity, adequacy or otherwise of existing services and availability of buses. Generally, the "public interest" is interpreted as being best served by enhancing and facilitating an expansion of the range of public transport services available to the public as opposed to allowing unrestricted competition for market share.

The adequacy or inadequacy of existing services and the net benefit to the public interest of a proposed service is assessed by the Department on the basis of the best evidence available to it. This includes evidence submitted by the applicant in support of the licence application, and outcome of consultations with such interests as local authorities and regional, community and business groups. The Department also examines applications for their added value to the public in terms of the route and locations to be served, the timing of services and the days on which services are available, in order to maximise the availability, regularity and frequency of service.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House.

The Road Transport Act 1932 does not provide for any distinction between passenger road services in rural or urban areas. In accordance with standard practice, all licence applications and notifications are dealt with on a first come, first served basis. However, pressing or exceptional circumstances can be taken into account in determining the order in which applications are dealt with. This would, for example, cover applications for passenger services to operate in conjunction with other transport modes such as Airport services or Luas feeder services, time-bound applications such as tour services or student services and commuter services, for example, in conjunction with the development of a quality bus network.

Such exceptional treatment is based on added value in terms of integrated transport, reducing congestion and meeting peak demand. However, due consideration must be given to all existing services and prior applications for passenger services on the same or similar routes in accordance with the Road Transport Act. The provisions of the Road Transport Act no longer provide an adequate basis for regulating the bus market and discussions are currently taking place with all the stakeholders with a view to replacing the Act with a modern regulatory framework, in line with the commitment in the programme for Government.

In this context, I propose to establish an independent national public transport commission to, inter alia, allocate Exchequer subvention for public transport services, both bus and rail, through public service contracts, to license commercial bus services and regulate fares on all rail services, Luas and buses.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I feel almost moved to tears because I have asked this question year in, year out and nothing seems to change. I have raised the issue of additional capacity for Dublin Bus. We are looking for more buses, not a fanciful interconnector or a metro. Buses are cheap and flexible and can be delivered relatively quickly.

Why is that not happening? Dublin Bus does not have the buses and no one else is allowed to provide the service. There are almost 200 applications on hand, of which 74 are for new licences, in some cases for two years. The Minister has received more applications for licences where the applicant simply wants to enhance the service and the Department will not provide an answer.

There is a major conflict of interest between the Minister as the licensing operator for private operators and as shareholder of CIE. How can the Minister stand over a situation where someone waits over 18 months to get a licence and the very day he or she receives a licence and puts his or her buses on the route Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann appears on the route for the first time? Neither could provide a service until they had some competition.

I ask the Minister to do one of three things and I do not care about the ideology involved. He can give buses to Dublin Bus, give licences to private operators or he can appoint a regulator and let the regulator organise the buses.

People need extra capacity. People, whose children are growing up, are growing old waiting on any kind of bus service. Entire communities were promised by the previous Minister that if houses were built on the basis of sustainable development, buses and trains would follow. None of it has happened. The houses are there, the children are growing old, in some cases there is a second generation, yet no bus has arrived.

It is unforgivable as the public interest is not being served. I do not know whose interest is being served. I cannot believe there is no progress on this matter because the Taoiseach wants to keep the unions happy. I cannot believe the public interest should be dumped to such an extent that this reason is the motivating factor. When will we see some action that will get extra capacity? It can be done quickly and we can put people out of their misery.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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If it is any consolation to the Deputy I first spoke on this Bill in the House over 20 years ago. The Road Transport Act 1932 is totally inadequate. It no longer provides an adequate basis for regulating the bus market.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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The Government has been in power for eight years.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Minister's party has been in Government for 18 of the last 20 years.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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We need a completely different framework to deal with it. I understand the Deputy's frustration. Now I have the opportunity to do something about it and I intend to do so. I wish to clarify one point relating to the number of buses and the capacity of Dublin Bus. The capacity of Dublin Bus has expanded enormously.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It has not expanded as much as the population.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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There has not been one extra bus.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The type of buses has changed, resulting in a capacity expansion of 25%. The number of buses may not have changed but the type of vehicle and the capacity has changed. There has been a huge expansion in the capacity of Dublin Bus. I am not making the point for political reasons but because it is misunderstood.

The Deputy is correct in stating that a conclusion must be reached. I do not think it is right the Minister or Department as the shareholder in a State company is also the regulator in the market. There is a conflict of interest and one cannot be both gamekeeper and poacher. We need an independent body to look after the issuing of licences and the subvention for the provision of public services through the bus network.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Will there be a regulator or a public body for procuring services before the next general election?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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With the help of Deputies Olivia Mitchell and Shortall I certainly hope so.

Olivia Mitchell (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is the Minister in charge of the Department.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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It was in the programme for Government and it was dropped.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I will do everything I can. The Bill is being readied. I am working on the Bill, despite everything else.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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What is the Bill to which the Minister is referring? The Bill is off the programme.