Dáil debates
Wednesday, 22 June 2005
Order of Business.
11:00 am
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 26, Garda Síochána Bill 2004 [Seanad] — Order for Report, Report and Final Stages.
It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m. Private Members' business shall be No. 56, motion re Morris tribunal reports and establishment of commission into policing (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is one proposal to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On that proposal, and in respect of No. 26, I want to object. Rushed legislation is bad legislation and we have had previous experiences with the Department of Health and Children, the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and other Departments. I understand from my spokesman and based on what Deputy Rabbitte said earlier——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Perhaps on the Order of Business I will allow the Deputy to raise the point but this is merely dealing with the late sitting.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am aware of that but the late sitting will continue tomorrow with a guillotine on this Bill.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The matter of the guillotine will come before the House tomorrow.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have already made points about this matter. This is a very important Bill and it is critical that the House and the country get a Bill that will stand up to all kinds of scrutiny.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy oppose the late sitting?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not object to the late sitting but I object to the Order for Report, Report and Final Stages to be guillotined tomorrow.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The only parliamentary method available to us is to oppose the late sitting. I oppose the late sitting because, as I explained this morning, this is an entirely inadequate and disrespectful way to process a Bill of such importance. With some 40 pages of amendments, some of which are coming in as we speak, it is unconscionable that we make law in this way.
I ask the Taoiseach to agree to refer the Bill in its entirety to Committee Stage and to permit the House to sit for an additional week. This will allow us time to take advice on the amendments that have appeared this morning and last night, and give us the opportunity to scrutinise the main committee and to debate the issues, having regard to the specific request from Mr. Justice Morris that we do so. Mr. Justice Morris had the Bill, as it was, before him when he made his recommendation.
Why should the House rise on 1 July?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are merely debating the late sitting today. There will be an opportunity to debate the House rising at a later stage.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I understand that and I am stating the Government has the option of continuing the House for an extra week to ensure this matter is dealt with properly. Why should the House not sit for an extra week? There is no justification that can be advanced for the House rising on 1 July, other than the fact that the Taoiseach wants to get his Ministers out of here, wounded, battered and bruised as they are.
Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should speak for himself.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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They are running away with their tails between their legs.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are discussing the Order of Business for today. The Deputy is taking up the time of the House and the point he raises does not arise on this debate.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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If the Government needs access to accident and emergency units it will be in serious difficulty waiting for it. We must oppose this measure because of the manner in which the Government is treating the House and Mr. Justice Morris.
Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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I agree with Deputy Rabbitte on the concerns about amendments being rushed through. While I accept that we are debating the need for a late sitting this evening, the prospect of the guillotine is on the horizon and it is best to raise it at as early a stage as possible. We are receiving amendments on the hour and that is not a good way to do business. We have already seen Bills coming back for amendment because they were rushed through in the first instance. We should allow more time this evening and over the coming weeks to allow the Garda Síochána Bill to receive the attention it deserves.
12:00 pm
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is less than satisfactory to object to a late sitting that will accommodate some further address of the Garda Síochána Bill. Nevertheless, there is no other mechanism by which we can object to the fact that for the greater number of Deputies there has not been sight of the new amendments the Minister has introduced. We do not know if the Minister has completed his submission of amendments as more may yet present.
At the end of the day there is no other course than that this Bill, given the significant changes offered, should be recommitted to Committee Stage. There is no other course at this time. Irrespective of what time is necessary, it is better that we get this as near to right as possible. Certainly, the current course and the Minister's approach is designed for outright confrontation with all Opposition voices in this House, resulting once again in rushed, flawed legislation, of which he has considerable experience. Accordingly, I object to the late sitting.
The Dail Divided:
For the motion: 71 (Bertie Ahern, Michael Ahern, Noel Ahern, Seán Ardagh, Niall Blaney, Johnny Brady, Martin Brady, Séamus Brennan, Joe Callanan, Ivor Callely, Pat Carey, John Carty, Donie Cassidy, Michael J Collins, John Cregan, Martin Cullen, John Curran, Síle de Valera, Tony Dempsey, John Dennehy, Jimmy Devins, John Ellis, Frank Fahey, Michael Finneran, Dermot Fitzpatrick, Seán Fleming, Mildred Fox, Pat Gallagher, Jim Glennon, Noel Grealish, Mary Harney, Seán Haughey, Máire Hoctor, Cecilia Keaveney, Billy Kelleher, Peter Kelly, Tony Killeen, Séamus Kirk, Tom Kitt, Brian Lenihan Jnr, Conor Lenihan, Michael McDowell, Tom McEllistrim, John McGuinness, Micheál Martin, John Moloney, Donal Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, M J Nolan, Seán Ó Fearghaíl, Charlie O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Liz O'Donnell, Noel O'Flynn, Batt O'Keeffe, Ned O'Keeffe, Fiona O'Malley, Tim O'Malley, Tom Parlon, Peter Power, Seán Power, Dick Roche, Mae Sexton, Brendan Smith, Michael Smith, Noel Treacy, Dan Wallace, Mary Wallace, Joe Walsh, Ollie Wilkinson, Michael Woods)
Against the motion: 48 (Tommy Broughan, Joan Burton, Beverley Flynn, Joe Costello, Seymour Crawford, Ciarán Cuffe, Jimmy Deenihan, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Martin Ferris, Paul Gogarty, John Gormley, Tom Hayes, Séamus Healy, Michael D Higgins, Phil Hogan, Brendan Howlin, Enda Kenny, Pádraic McCormack, Shane McEntee, Finian McGrath, Paul McGrath, Liz McManus, Olivia Mitchell, Arthur Morgan, Breeda Moynihan-Cronin, Catherine Murphy, Gerard Murphy, Denis Naughten, Dan Neville, Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Fergus O'Dowd, Jim O'Keeffe, Brian O'Shea, Jan O'Sullivan, Séamus Pattison, John Perry, Ruairi Quinn, Pat Rabbitte, Michael Ring, Seán Ryan, Trevor Sargent, Joe Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Emmet Stagg, David Stanton, Mary Upton)
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kitt and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Neville and Stagg.
Question declared carried.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the Good Friday Agreement, in a question the Taoiseach answered yesterday about meetings he had with the president of Sinn Féin, Gerry Adams, he made it clear he would continue dialogue with Sinn Féin. Is there a difference between formal and informal meetings in the sense that the Taoiseach has asked his officials to find out why Mr. Kelly was rearrested when he could probably have asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform who has access to the files in the first instance?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business. Has the Deputy a brief question?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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My point is, when the Taoiseach meets the president of Sinn Féin or any other party on such a matter, would it not be appropriate from a bipartisan point of view for the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to be in attendance?
I bring another matter to the Taoiseach's attention because it has to do with an issue close to the area he represents as a Deputy. I attended a public meeting in Prussia Street last night where a number of women are very concerned about prostitution on streets in the locality. They feel that sooner or later somebody will be killed in the area because women with drug problems with children as young as two years have been seen getting into cars having been solicited for their services. They have requested meetings with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on a number of occasions——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has raised two questions that are out of order on the Order of Business. Members of the House have just complained about the lack of time to discuss what we are supposed to discuss here.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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With regard to the crimes Bill and an issue of serious concern in that locality, will the Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform take action to deal with the matter?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have a date for the crimes Bill. However, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has appointed Professor Finbarr McAuley to chair the statutory criminal law codification advisory group which will progress the codification of the legislation.
Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Will the Taoiseach remind us of the current position on the work permits Bill?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has been passed by Cabinet and is due for publication shortly, either next week or in the next few days. I will check it for the Deputy, but it has gone through Cabinet.
Trevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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We asked the Taoiseach earlier about the cross-Department team on infrastructure. With regard to legislation I want to ask about, the Taoiseach talked about looking at the situation -À la Humphrey Bogart rather than À la Taoiseach. Has the Taoiseach any plans to deal with the high ratio spending on roads? Will he publish the Dublin metro Bill and ensure it becomes a reality, or the transport reform Bill? Will we get the opportunity to debate these in the Dáil any time soon? Can we have some action in this regard?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have a date for the transport reform Bill. There is some work done on the draft heads, but there is no date for the heads yet. Some other transport Bills are due in 2006, but I have no date for that particular Bill.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Naughten and ask him to be very brief and to confine himself to legislation. A number of people want to ask about legislation and I would like to facilitate them, but it looks as if I will not be able to.
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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I offered yesterday also, but there was no Order of Business. When will the intoxicating liquor Bill come before the House because it seems both the Minister for Agriculture and Food and Greencore were intoxicated when they agreed to the closure of the Carlow sugar plant?
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a statement. Has the Deputy a question on the legislation?
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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In light of the compensation proposals being put forward this morning, it seems the Carlow plant is now not deemed eligible for anything because of the premature closure of the plant prior to the publication of these proposals.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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They might as well turn it into a café bar.
Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Civil Registration Bill was published in 2003 and went through all the processes in this House. However, it has not yet been commenced as an Act. This is having an impact on situations regarding registration, such as parents trying to get registration of their children sorted out or people planning weddings. Why has the Act not been commenced? It seems to be tangled up with the issue of decriminalization.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is enacted. I will bring the Deputy's remarks to the attention of the Minister.
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach set aside some time for the Tánaiste to come in this afternoon to explain to the House what hospitals——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise on the Order of Business.
Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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There is huge confusion around the country about the number of hospitals the funding——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise. There are other ways the Deputy can raise the matter. We will move on to No. 26, if the Deputy does not want to remain on the Order of Business.
Mary Upton (Dublin South Central, Labour)
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Last weekend we were treated to the gruesome images of the slaughtering of 4,000 pigs in an inhumane and cruel fashion. The Department of Agriculture and Food refused to intervene. When can we expect the animal health Bill?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government has approved the heads of the Bill and it has gone for drafting. I do not have a date for the Bill, but I will ask the Department to bring forward a date.
Paul Gogarty (Dublin Mid West, Green Party)
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Last night I raised the matter of important legislation whereby a coroner can only call one medical practitioner in an inquest. When will the coroners Bill come before the House?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That Bill will come before the House in 2006.
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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This morning the Taoiseach mentioned legislation dealing with standards and services in nursing homes. What is the position in regard to that legislation and when will it be in the House?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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What is the title of the Bill?
David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure. The Taoiseach mentioned it this morning and I just want to know what it is all about.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I mentioned the health inspectorate Bill. The drafting of that legislation is a priority and it should be ready for the autumn session.
Tommy Broughan (Dublin North East, Labour)
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Can we expect the electronic communications (miscellaneous provisions) Bill in 2005? Given that we do not have that Bill, will the Taoiseach ensure the Competition Authority urgently investigates the takeover of NTL by Chorus, given that the main shareholder is also one of the main shareholders of Sky television?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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That legislation is due in the autumn session.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I support Deputy Upton on the issue of the slaughter of the 4,000 pigs. What happened——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That does not arise at this time.
Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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We need to discuss the matter in this House.
With regard to the proposed major hike in electricity charges, when will the electricity Bill come before the House? In light of the extraordinary situation regarding non-co-operation by the National Roads Authority, when will the national roads infrastructure Bill be brought to the House so we can discuss the way property owners——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call the Taoiseach on the legislation.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The energy Bill is due in 2006.
Denis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy asked about the electricity Bill.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The electricity Bill is due in 2006.
Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Those bills come every month.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The national roads infrastructure Bill is now named the road (miscellaneous provisions) Bill. It is being drafted, but I do not have a date for it to come to the House.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Why was the Taoiseach not in Kilkenny on Sunday when Westport United won the FAI junior cup, on which I congratulate the team? We were very disappointed the Taoiseach was not there. We looked out for him.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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He will try to get to the match next time.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I want to ask about the Abbotstown sports campus development Bill, but with the Ceann Comhairle's permission I would like to congratulate Westport United, a team from a small rural town, on winning the FAI junior cup. I am sure the Taoiseach would also like to offer his congratulations to Westport. I am glad to say that we beat Waterford Crystal.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach, on the Abbotstown Bill.
Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The match was in Kilkenny. I congratulate the team. We went to Kilkenny, the marble city, and brought home the gold.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should have been in Hyde Park in Roscommon.
Ivor Callely (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is amazing that Westport wants the support of the Taoiseach, rather than the support of Deputy Kenny.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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If Dublin had not been playing, I would have been there to support Westport United.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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My priorities are right.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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When will the proposed alcohol products (control of advertising, sponsorship and marketing practices/sales promotions) Bill be published? Is the Taoiseach, who is a regular attender at Croke Park, concerned that the stadium is slowly turning into the biggest superpub in Ireland? It is important for the Taoiseach to give his view on the matter.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I cannot do that under legislation, obviously. The proposed alcohol products (control of advertising, sponsorship and marketing practices/sales promotions) Bill will be published later this year.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach have any concerns about the increased drink culture at Croke Park? He must have noticed it as he has been there a few times this summer.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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As long as it is not on the pitch, anyway——
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I would also like to ask about this country's drink culture and continuing problems with alcohol.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I do. It is directly related to legislation.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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To what legislation does the Deputy refer?
John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I refer to the proposed alcohol products (control of advertising, sponsorship and marketing practices/sales promotions) Bill.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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That question has just been asked.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach has answered a question about the Bill.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Contrary to what many people think, four energy Bills are listed on the Order Paper at present. I refer to the energy (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, the natural gas regulation Bill, the Bord Gáis Éireann Bill and the electricity Bill.
Billy Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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What about the hot air Bill?
Noel Treacy (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy forgot the hot air Bill.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The only thing that is spectacular about that is the absence of the Minister who is responsible. Can he be encouraged to come to the House with a view to introducing the Bills as a matter of urgency? I refer in particular to the electricity Bill, given the proposed hike in prices.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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That has already been dealt with this morning.
Michael McDowell (Dublin South East, Progressive Democrats)
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Was the Deputy asleep? He should take some pep pills.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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This part of it has not been dealt with.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It has already been dealt with this morning.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The proposed hike in prices will bring a 60%——
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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It was dealt with this morning.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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——increase in electricity prices within three years.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have to move on to the next business.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Bills are before the House.
Rory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should allow the Taoiseach to answer.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I hope the Chair will allow him to answer.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have already spoken about the electricity Bill. The energy (miscellaneous provisions) Bill will be published in this session.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What about the natural gas Bill? I asked about that as well.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Everything is mañana.
Noel Treacy (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The pipe is being laid.
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The other one is this session.
Ciarán Cuffe (Dún Laoghaire, Green Party)
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In view of the concerns about high levels of radon being found in new dwellings, can the Taoiseach assure the House that the building control Bill will be introduced soon?
Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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It will be introduced in the autumn session.