Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Question 31: To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the Government's views on the recently published report of the consumer strategy group; the reason he has decided to embark on another consultation process in regard to below-cost selling; when this process will be completed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18119/05]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government welcomes the report of the consumer strategy group which was published on 18 May 2005. The report contains over 30 separate recommendations involving a variety of Departments and agencies. The Government accepts the core recommendation in the CSG report and has approved, in principle, the establishment of a new national consumer agency.

The Government intends to ensure that the new agency is up and running as soon as possible and to that end my Department has commenced the necessary legislative and organisational work to establish the NCA. In the interim, I am appointing a board to the new agency, which will act in an interim capacity until the NCA is established on a statutory footing. The interim board will immediately begin planning for the final structure and organisation of the fully-fledged national consumer agency.

As regards the other recommendations contained in the CSG report, the Government has agreed to establish a high level interdepartmental committee to examine the recommendations and to report back with a detailed implementation plan within three months.

One of the group's recommendations — the proposal that the groceries order be abolished entirely — has, not unexpectedly attracted a significant amount of interest. This is an important recommendation both for business and consumer interests. The issues to which the groceries order give rise are complex. The CSG report, while coming down in favour of the revocation of the groceries order in its entirety, also recognises that there is well-founded argumentation on both sides of the debate.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is probably well funded as well.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The report advances new material and arguments in support of its recommendation to revoke the order. It is also the first time since the groceries order was first introduced in the 1950s that its operation has been examined from a uniquely consumer perspective. It is only sensible and prudent policy-making to give all those with an interest in the matter the opportunity to comment on the CSG findings.

In all those circumstances, I decided that careful and serious consideration of the CSG arguments and recommendation was warranted before deciding what action would be appropriate on the order. Accordingly, I decided to invite the views of all interested parties, not just on the recommendation to revoke the order but also on what, if anything, should replace the order.

The consultation process is under way and submissions are invited before 31 July 2005. Following this consultation period, I will take all views into account before deciding what action is appropriate. In the event that it is decided to change the status of the order, primary legislation will be needed.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We now know the views of virtually everyone in the country, except the Minister, on the groceries order. We know the views of the Oireachtas committee, Opposition Deputies who spoke on it and the consumer strategy group. We have not, however, heard the views of the Minister who has responsibility for this matter. Does the Minister accept that he has garnered for himself in a number of Departments a reputation for always being a report away from a hard decision? Will he tell the House his thoughts and views on the value or otherwise of maintaining the groceries order?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I reject the Deputy's assertion about previous ministerial duties I occupied, including education and science, and health and children. I was the first Minister in 30 years to begin the process of abolishing health boards. The decision to do so through legislation was my decision, despite all the opposition from those on health boards.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Not least the Minister's own people on health boards.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I acknowledge that, but I still took the decision. The smoking ban was also my decision.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Fair play to the Minister.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I took decisions on other matters as well.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I do not think things have improved since he did.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In making decisions, I believe that one must take on board what people have to say. To be frank, although it might be inappropriate for me to say so, I think it was too soon for the Oireachtas committee——

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister should speak his mind.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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——to arrive at a conclusion prior to the publication of the consumer strategy group's report.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister had the report for six months.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not have it for six months.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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He had it for three or four months anyway.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the context of the groceries order, it raises a number of points——

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Can we have the Minister's opinion now?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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——particularly the issue of net invoice discounting.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Does the Minister have a view?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Oireachtas Committee would do well to re-evaluate and re-examine it.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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What about the Minister's view?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will not pre-empt the outcome of the consultation period.

Arthur Morgan (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Is the Minister under pressure from the Progressive Democrats?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Not at all, I have an open mind on this matter. There is a number of factors to take on board, not least the interests of consumers, which is a key issue. There are also the issues of primary producers, suppliers and the impact on industry. I will allow the consultation process to take place. The consumer strategy group has advanced cogent arguments. Those who are opposed to the revocation of the order will have to come up with strong arguments on the issue.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I feel a compromise coming up.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We will have to respond in a meaningful way to the points that have been raised by the consumer strategy group, not least that, to date, everyone has concentrated on the revocation of the order only. There are other issues that the CSG raised which deserve serious consideration.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Hogan is right to say that there is a compromise brewing. Does the Minister accept that the groceries order involves a uniquely consumer perspective or does he accept that the order also involves other vital perspectives, such as good planning? Does the Minister agree with the consumer strategy group's recommendation that local authorities should interpret the retail planning guidelines in a manner that promotes competition and that is consistent across all local authority areas? Alternatively, would the Minister share my view that different interpretations might be more appropriate for different locations?

The needs of cities such as Dublin, Cork or Galway are different from those of towns like Wexford, Mullingar and Tralee. Therefore, the best interpretation of what is appropriate to maintain the heart of towns and accessible shopping precincts is better understood by the local community. That is why we have the concept of local government, as opposed to centralised Government, to make planning decisions.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am glad the Deputy has acknowledged that there are other perspectives to the groceries order issue. I initiated the consultation process to allow those other perspectives to have an input into future decisions on it.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am trying to elicit the Minister's view.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the point the Deputy raised concerning planning, I agree with the consumer strategy group's broad recommendation that planning authorities should not impede competition and should never utilise planning as a vehicle for impeding competition. On behalf of the State and the Oireachtas, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government issues planning guidelines on a range of issues. The Oireachtas often concurs with the issuing to all local authorities of broad guidelines which could relate to social housing, housing in general, the retail area and so on. While local considerations must be considered, planning should never be used as a way to stop competition.