Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Question 5: To ask the Minister for Transport if he will report on the analysis his Department has carried out on the future tolling of the M50. [15771/05]

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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My Department has not, to date, carried out an analysis on the future tolling of the M50. The statutory power to levy tolls on national roads and to enter toll agreements with private investors in respect of national roads is vested in the National Roads Authority under Part VI of the Roads Act 1993, as amended by the Planning and Development Act 2000. Tolling of the M50, therefore, and any changes to the current tolling arrangements, is a matter, in the first instance, for the NRA. Given the transport policy issues involved, however, my approval would also be required for changes in current tolling arrangements.

In the context of the overall upgrade of the M50 the NRA is negotiating and seeking to agree with NTR a strategy for the upgrade of that section of the M50 operated by NTR, that is, the section between the Navan Road and Galway Road interchanges and the West Link toll facility. A key objective of these negotiations will be to agree a strategy for the move to barrier-free tolling on the M50. The conduct of these negotiations is a matter for the NRA and the final outcome will be submitted for my approval. For the sake of clarity, I have asked both sides to achieve this. Barrier-free tolling is a must.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Minister has my sympathy, having inherited the greatest mess in the history of transport, a mess which is not of his making. Last week we heard of the incredible waste of €20 billion expenditure on roads in terms of the building of 800 kilometres of motorway leading to this one road. I am sure the Minister will accept, as An Bord Pleanála and the Taoiseach have, that it will not work. Does the Minister's Department not have a role in deciding funding of the upgrading of the M50? Does it include an analysis on whether we should have an extension of tolling on the West Link toll bridge to pay for the second stage of the upgrade of the M50? Is the Department engaged in discussions and negotiations on the process and, if not, can we take it for granted that the NRA's position, which was presented to a committee of this House, that the road will not work means there will have to be different demand management measures, which An Bord Pleanála requires? Will this require a different tolling system on the M50 because everyone acknowledges that the current West Link toll facility has no demand management facility? If the Department is not engaged in that process, I presume the NRA's position is the one that will be advanced by Government. Has the Minister a view on the matter or when will his Department become involved? I understood that it was already involved.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I set out the legal responsibilities in this regard. Under various Acts, the National Roads Authority is charged with these responsibilities. I have a view which I expressed directly to National Toll Roads and the NRA. I want to move to barrier-free tolling on the M50 as quickly as is humanly possible. I have asked for that.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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No one disagrees——

Séamus Pattison (Carlow-Kilkenny, Labour)
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The Minister without interruption.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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No one disagrees with barrier-free tolling. That is not the issue.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Let me move to my second point. We are increasing the capacity of the M50 by 50%, which is substantial. It will be of great benefit to road users in that area. There is no doubt that we will have to move to demand management of traffic in Dublin. However, before moving fully to that position, I want to give people in Dublin and those who visit the capital city a choice of public transport access into the city. This is the fairest way to deal with the matter. I will not penalise or punish people by not having in place alternative facilities but, ultimately, the growth in traffic will require demand management.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Does the Minister accept that the position of the engineer consultants presented to An Bord Pleanála's hearing, the Dublin Transportation office engineers and the NRA itself was that such demand management measures should not be in the form of traffic lights on these freeflow junctions and that it would have to be a new form of tolling? Does he accept that his Department should carry out an analysis on whether it should buy out the West Link toll bridge and consider an alternative system which would provide some sort of demand management facilities, as is being considered for the M25 widening in London? Does the Minister believe this is the way we should go or what is the alternative?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I already answered the Deputy's question twice, but obviously he does not agree with my reply. I agree that there must be demand management in the future. There are many different ways of doing so; it does not necessarily mean tolling all the exits and entrances on the M50. This is one of the options which is suggested. I agree with the Deputy that there should not be traffic lights which would stop the flow of traffic. There needs to be a freeflow traffic system.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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Does the Minister accept that we would also have to buy out the West Link?

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The income streams from the toll bridge are used by the State for the upgrading of the M50, which is extremely important and much warranted. I welcome the project which has been approved by An Bord Pleanála and is now under way.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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That use of future funds from the West Link toll bridge to pay for the M50 relates to the extension of tolling on the West Link bridge from 2020 to 2035. Given that the toll facility has no demand management functions and never can have, how can the Minister propose that approach when he admitted that by 2020 we will need some sort of demand management measures? Why is he tying us into a tolling system that is all about revenue generation and not about demand management? It makes no sense.

Martin Cullen (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is missing my point. I have already spoken to the NRA and NTR, two commercial operations. The NRA operates independently but on behalf of the State. It must negotiate with NTR. It is exploring many options with regard to substantial improvements and tolling on the M50. I look forward to the conclusion of the discussions and to the NRA coming back to me with proposals. I have a very open mind on what can be achieved. I want to achieve a much better operation of the M50.