Paul McGrath (Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Question 45: To ask the Minister for Finance his proposals for better budgetary procedures; and the proposed involvement of the Oireachtas in shaping these procedures. [13651/05]

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am currently examining proposals for change that could be implemented in the short and medium term. Any changes to current practices would need to meet best practice, improve both the quality of debate and the data available to the House on the budget, meet our obligations to the EU and be capable of being delivered within the existing budget timetable. I will discuss the possibilities for change with my colleagues in the Government shortly. Subsequently, I will bring proposals the House will then have an opportunity to discuss.

Paul McGrath (Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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I am disappointed the Minister is reluctant to put his proposals on the record. It is amazing that only last week, when appearing before the Oireachtas Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service, the Taoiseach was prepared to discuss the issue quite openly. He indicated that sweeping changes were being brought forward. I am now amazed to hear the Minister state that the Cabinet has not even discussed them yet. It is strange that the Taoiseach has not discussed it with the Minister. The Taoiseach indicated that when the Estimates are published in mid-November, information on the activities relating to the various programmes will accompany them. Does the Minister agree? Will he confirm that that will be the case? Will there be information pertaining to key performance indicators? Will there be indicators relating to targets for any new spending? If new tax concessions are introduced, will information pertaining to ongoing costs be available, such as what they are expected to be? Will performance indicators also be attached to these Estimates? Can the Minister confirm that he will be required to stand over the expected expenditure for new programmes? I raise this point because we have seen some awful errors in the past. For example, the announcement regarding medical cards cost multiples of the then Minister's projections. I understand that it was five times the actual estimated cost. As far as the pre-1953 PRSI contributions are concerned, the multiple was something like 12 times the estimated costs the Minister of the day announced.

Will there be some way of making the Minister responsible to the House for such errors? Will the Minister elaborate on the consultation that will take place with the Houses regarding any proposed changes in terms of budgetary discussions and similar matters? Will he discuss all of his new plans with the House before they are introduced and implemented?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As things stand, these matters are part of the deliberative process. The Government must approve them before I can discuss them with anyone else. This is the reason I am not in a position to go into any great detail. The Government is considering a number of options. As I indicated on budget day, there is room for improvement to the process of budget policy formation. We need a constructive debate on the procedures in place and how these can be enhanced. I hope the House will discuss the issues in a useful and productive manner. In the past, the Government produced meaningful changes. For example, the capital envelopes facility my predecessor introduced in the budget of 2004 encourages a more structured planning approach and therefore greater value for money with regard to infrastructural projects. I welcome debate on changes to the budget process. However, it will be important to implement changes that strengthen the process rather than weaken it through lack of effective implementation. We must also take into account reforms to the Stability and Growth Pact, which have been agreed recently as the Deputy is aware.

I cannot go into great detail, but as I stated with genuine and sincere sentiment in the budget speech, I would like to see more effective participation by the Oireachtas regarding the available documentation and how we might go about proceeding, rather than Members feeling that the process is done and dusted before they get up to speak about it. I have heard some resonances from the Fine Gael document. The Deputy will forgive me if, not being a member of his party, I do not accept every single dot and comma of his colleagues' proposals. They are a good contribution to the debate and I am sure when I bring forward some ideas, they can be discussed. I would like to see a productive and constructive debate rather than just a points-scoring exercise.

Paul McGrath (Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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If the Minister is anxious to send in an application form to join the party, we will consider it in due course. We might find a vacancy for him at some stage.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I must protest in the strongest possible terms. This is an outrageous slander on my character.

Paul McGrath (Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should send in the form in triplicate. Can he give an indication on a time frame as to when he might bring these proposals forward? Is it likely that we will be able to have a discussion in committee or is it likely to be in the House? Will it require additional legislation to implement? Does the Minister consider it strange that the Taoiseach appeared able to openly discuss this at the Oireachtas Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service while the Minister is so reluctant to release any of the gems contained in his plans?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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During his career, Deputy Paul McGrath may discover that there are certain privileges and discretions which a Taoiseach enjoys but which a Minister does not.

My proposals simply aim to improve, in practical terms, participation in or contributions to the budgetary process by other Members. No Minister for Finance would transfer control of the budgetary process to an Opposition, even one that would claim to be as enlightened as the current Opposition. There will be some practical ideas that we can take forward in the medium term with a view to introducing more long-term reforms following more detailed consideration. A debate should take place and I would like it to be more productive because no Member is in permanent control of his or her seat at any given time.