Dáil debates

Tuesday, 16 November 2004

Ceisteanna — Questions.

Regulatory Reform.

2:30 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of the recommendation of the OECD report on regulatory reform; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21437/04]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach the progress made by the quality customer service working group within his Department established under the strategic management initiative; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21438/04]

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach the progress to date with regard to the implementation of the OECD report on regulatory reform; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23381/04]

Photo of Trevor SargentTrevor Sargent (Dublin North, Green Party)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of the OECD report on regulatory reform recommendations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [23516/04]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the progress to date in implementing the recommendations of the OECD report on regulatory reform. [24148/04]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 15: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of recommendations of the OECD report on regulatory reform; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28841/04]

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 to 15, inclusive, together.

The implementation group of Secretaries General has responsibility for overall co-ordination and promotion of the modernisation programme for the Civil Service. A number of sub-groups oversee the different strands of the modernisation programme, which are taken forward in close collaboration between my Department and the Department of Finance.

The quality customer service working group, chaired by Mr. Frank Daly, Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners, promotes improved service to customers. The group includes members from Departments and offices as well as representatives of customers and the social partners.

The main focus of the group in recent times has been the implementation of the customer charter initiative across the Civil Service. Guidance and training has been provided to Departments and offices to help them prepare the charters, and the majority of Departments have now published their charters; the remainder are scheduled to do so shortly.

These charters have been prepared following consultation with customers. Departments are expected to include measurable targets and then report on the achievement of these targets in their annual reports, starting in 2004. This process will ensure that the Civil Service remains focused on customer needs and becomes more accountable for achieving service standards.

The group has also overseen an initiative to identify and showcase examples of excellence across the public service. Following a national competition, 20 projects were selected for their achievements in improving customer service and the quality of administration.

These projects were presented at three national conferences in Dublin, Sligo and Limerick during July. I was pleased to present an excellence award to each of the projects. They then represented Ireland at an EU Quality Conference in Rotterdam.

Other projects undertaken by the working group in the past include the preparation of a paper on the customer service aspects of the decentralisation initiative, which has been circulated to all Departments, and a report on the use of accreditation schemes in the Civil Service. While improvements in the level of customer service will ultimately depend on the commitment of management in each Department, the quality customer service working group has helped to deliver improvements.

With regard to better regulation, which is another strand of the modernisation programme, progress has been achieved since the publication of the OECD report on regulatory reform in 2001. Many of its recommendations related to specific sectoral issues and progress in this regard was recorded in a report published in January 2003. A central element of the Government's response to the OECD report was the formulation of a White Paper last January, which sets out the introduction of regulatory impact analysis, initially on a pilot basis; improvements to our approach to sectoral regulation; a renewed drive to tackle red tape; and greater clarity and accessibility of regulation.

A better regulation group of senior officials has been established to oversee implementation of the White Paper and promote better quality regulation across the public service. To date, the group has focused on better regulation issues, including the enterprise strategy group. It also oversees progress on the ongoing programme of statute law revision which seeks to amend the Statute Book.

As already stated, another key action in the White Paper is the development of a system of regulatory impact analysis as recommended by the OECD. A number of Departments have agreed to pilot the draft RIA model.

Overall, good progress has been achieved in modernising the public service. This is extensively documented in the performance verification process under the Sustaining Progress agreement. The progress reports prepared for the Civil Service performance verification group demonstrate that considerable improvements have been made in the quality and efficiency of services.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As time is short, I will ask only three questions. Do we have too many regulators and would one regulator with real authority, clout and assistance do the job better?

The Taoiseach will be aware of a National Competitiveness Council report in which its chairman, Mr. Burgess, said the single greatest impediment to growth was the issue of costs. In the area of regulation of the furniture business, for instance, what is the Taoiseach's view on recent comments that regulations will be lifted for one company, IKEA, to allow it to come here, whereas they will not be lifted for other companies? Is this fair or legal?

What progress has been made on removing the barrier to foreign educated pharmacists entering the Irish market?

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Perhaps some of the Deputy's questions would be better addressed to the line Minister.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They all relate to regulatory reform.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the issue of a single regulator, two recent reports stated this issue should be looked at and that, rather than appointing new regulators, we should try to give new regulatory roles to existing regulators. It also stated we should look at having a super-regulator and move away from having a host of regulators in different areas. There is sense in this proposal and the issue is being examined. While I do not believe one individual could do everything, it would make sense for one office to do it.

As the Deputy stated, the National Competitiveness Council has also made such a proposal. It has also raised the issues and burdens facing small companies, in particular, as a result of the way in which regulation is made. Since the White Paper was published, an amount of work has been done on this area. The key to the issue is to make regulatory impact analysis work by carrying out a strict examination before one starts a regulatory or legislative processon whether the process is needed, what it is about and what bureaucracy or red tape it will create. I have seen regulatory impact analysis work and it will make an enormous difference. As regards what is already in place, that is perhaps a different area. Regulatory impact analysis is working. It has been done in a number of pilot areas and must be extended. Much work has been done in this area.

The simple answer regarding IKEA is that the matter has to be examined. IKEA's proposal has been around for many years. The only aspect of it that changes is the location, it tends to vary in terms of the part of the country it wishes to locate. The proposal must be examined to see whether we are losing out by not having IKEA stores. Regarding the question of having only one IKEA store, I am not sure that would stand up to scrutiny, which is why there should be closer examination of the issue.

The number of IKEA products being brought into Ireland is enormous. Ballymun is a deserving place, but I have a difficulty, and this is the reason I agreed to regulations limiting the number of stores, in that if an IKEA furniture store is allowed, it will want to open stores selling clothes and other products. I am not sure that, under EU competition policy, that can be regulated. We are examining closely that issue. Good arguments are made about employment and that IKEA products are being brought into the country. IKEA produced a glossy booklet, distributed in most urban areas, that allows people to use its mail order service and many truckers bring in its products every week. The validity of allowing one store only would be extraordinarily difficult to defend. If store size is regulated for one company it must be regulated for every company. Otherwise the decision would be challenged within a month, with the argument put forward that what applies to one company should apply to all. That happened in other countries and it is a difficult issue.

Regarding pharmacists, the Competition Authority is close to completing its study of six or eight professional areas, and that report will be made available. The Department of Health and Children undertook an independent examination of the issue of professional qualifications and I think that work is completed. The Competition Authority indicates that people with qualifications from outside the country are able to enter most of these professional grades here. Already with most professions, including engineering and architects, no debarring mechanisms exist. From my reading of the last draft of the Competition Authority's report, it recommends that it is not compatible to restrict professionals coming from other countries.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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In June 2004, when these questions were last raised, I referred to the section of the White Paper on Regulatory Reform that commits Departments and offices to publish draft heads of Bills where feasible and possible. I asked the Taoiseach if the heads of the Health Bill would be published. The record of the House shows that he replied: "The reform process envisaged by the Health Bill is so complex that the draft heads should certainly be produced." However, that has not happened and the Bill was presented to Cabinet today. Will the Taoiseach explain why his recommendation in June was not adhered to and why, despite all these promises, we do not have this level of signalled co-operation?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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On the Taoiseach's commitment to minimise red tape and bureaucracy in terms of how it impacts on entrepreneurship, will he indicate to the House how new legislative measures are vetted in their impact on small businesses? The Construction Industry Federation and IBEC claim the recently published Health and Safety Bill is very burdensome in this regard.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The concept of discussion of heads of Bills in Oireachtas committees is a good one because areas can be teased out. Most of the heads in the Health Bill were taken from the reform documents produced since 2001.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The heads of the Health Bill have not been published.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is nothing new in them and the heads are based around that. Speed and time are the reasons for not debating them at the committee. Where possible, it is better that there is a meaningful discussion about the heads of Bills and I have indicated that to my colleagues. I hope they go before all committees, they certainly go before some. In several cases the heads of Bills published for some time have not been debated in committees, which further delays matters.

The concept of the White Paper, the OECD report and all the work is to inject more rigour into the process of formulating and analysing proposed regulations and the regulatory impact analysis. The process of making regulations in certain cases may take more time but the impact analysis does not apply to all regulations. The idea is that if people must sit down, to examine and think extensively about the burdens and value of regulations and question their effectiveness and their ability to achieve something, half the regulations will not be needed.

I am frequently asked about the Health and Safety Act and what is happening to it. When I introduced it 15 years ago, I never envisaged that we would turn health and safety issues into an industry. After archaeology it must be the fastest growing industry. I was trying to ensure there were rules and guidance to stop the level of accidents happening at the time.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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A raft of new regulations needs to be considered now.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, behind this there is a large industry of advisers and specialists, degrees and certificates.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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It sounds like Government.

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is shrinking. My Department shrank by 4% this year.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The ambulance drivers in Wexford need life jackets now.

Photo of Rory O'HanlonRory O'Hanlon (Cavan-Monaghan, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Howlin should allow the Taoiseach to conclude. We have exceeded the time for Taoiseach's Question Time.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Longford-Roscommon, Fine Gael)
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What about wellington boots?

Photo of Bertie AhernBertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will not argue with Deputy Howlin on this because there is a difference between trying to make something safe and writing a great deal into regulations. While no one wants to see accidents on building sites, farms, in butchers' shops or meat factories where they have traditionally happened, we do not need to insist that every small company must have a health and safety clerk to comply with it. That was not the original idea.