Réada Cronin (Kildare North, Sinn Fein)

Ar dtús, ba mhaith liom an Bille seo a mholadh don Teach. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta Coppinger as ucht é a chur faoi bhráid na Dála.

I would also like to welcome all of those in the Gallery who made the journey to Leinster House today to hear the debate on this very important legislation. I met a couple of people I know outside, including a constituent who is a therapist and a proud advocate and member of Therapists Against Harm. I also met a survivor of sexual assault who is here with her mam. All three of them are women. All those women and their comrades are very welcome to their Dáil here tonight.

Right now, the situation in our courts is that survivors of rape and sexual abuse can have their private counselling notes dragged into court and read by the very person who sexually abused them. The Minister of State should think about that. After surviving something so deeply personal, so violating, they are being told to hand over the most vulnerable parts of themselves - their inner thoughts and fears - again, and for what? To be doubted and humiliated and for those facts to be dissected again. Counselling and therapy is something that is very intimate and personal. It is supposed to be a safe place where people can communicate their anxieties, fears and hopes. In the context of someone having to endure the horrifying and traumatic experience of sexual assault, people feel this is the only place where they can be truly honest and candid about their experiences and feelings. When you are sitting there in the counselling room, the only person your therapist cares about is you. Most victims of sexual abuse are women. Women are mainly the empaths and the carers in society. We are mammies, sisters and daughters. We are always thinking about how the attack that happened to us affected our families and our friends.

It is unbelievable to have a place where you do not have to worry about what other people think, and where you are not judged. When it is just you and the counsellor, you can be your complete and honest self. You know that how you are expressing yourself might upset people you love, so the therapy session is a place where you are fully safe, where your guard can come down and where you do not have to worry. It is the first time that many women feel the worries of the world are off their shoulders. The Minister of State would be surprised if he knew how many women he knows have suffered some kind of a sexual attack in various degrees but he does not know that about them. It is absolutely shameful to think that people would then be told that their trust will be completely betrayed. Nobody should have any access to those sessions and to those notes. The idea that the perpetrator can read someone's personal private counselling notes, where they talk about the trauma they have endured, is extremely unsettling for many women. We have heard how so many of them believe that this means reliving what they have already suffered through. The women who are here tonight have taken the brave decision to wave their anonymity specifically to campaign for change in relation to the disclosure of counselling notes, and I commend them. Now is the time for us, as their legislators and representatives in the Dáil, to support them.

I acknowledge that Deputy Carthy, as Chair of the justice committee, has made it clear that Sinn Féin wants the voices of victims and campaigners to be at the heart of the pre-legislative scrutiny process. This Bill can go through. It may not happen in a year, even without the one-year delay. It will take at least that for the hearings and the pre-legislative scrutiny. The Minister can have his team of lawyers working on his own Bill if that is what he wants.

It is imperative that this Bill protects victims of rape and sexual assault from further trauma during the legal process to secure justice for those affected. Counselling is a place for healing. These sessions must not be used as courtroom ammunition. The right to a fair trial is critical. An Teachta Coppinger has said that she would fight to the death for the right to a fair trial but that fairness does not mean we turn a blind eye to power imbalance. It does not mean survivors should have to choose between seeking help and seeking justice. We can and we must protect both justice and dignity. We need a judicial system that works for survivors, not against them. I know the Minister is working on his own Bill but he should be prepared to listen to an Teachta Coppinger and to the witnesses that Deputy Carthy has said he intends to invite to the justice committee for pre-legislative scrutiny.

The purpose of this Bill is to right a wrong. When I was outside the Dáil earlier, one of the survivors said that when the Constitution was written they were not thinking about women at all. This is an opportunity to right a wrong that is in the Constitution if the Minister of State says that this Bill is unconstitutional. I ask him to listen to the women he works with and the women in his life. Blocking this Bill is just more of the power imbalance. As an Teachta Coppinger said, the notes of the therapist are actually hearsay. This is third-person or third-party information. It should not be before any court of law.

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