Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)

There are various views here on this matter, it is what is called democracy. Can the Minister put the position for new entrants to the systems from this autumn on the record? What is his considered view as to whether fees will be in place for new entrants to the system?

As a means of not making a dog's dinner of this, I ask the Minister and Cabinet not to make a decision on the funding issue until such time as we get the report of higher level review group which is looking into higher level education. I speak here in a constructive manner. We cannot decouple the issues of funding and reform. Both are part of the same response we must make collectively to improve quality and standards in higher education. While it is useful to have a debate at this stage, I ask the Minister to wait to make a decision until such time as we have the reform document.

On 11 August last the Minister said he would support the initiative of a forensic audit of third level spending before making any decision on funding, in terms of the university and institutes of technology sector. Is that still his position? He also said recently that he rejected the notion that senior academics and university heads should be getting more than Secretarys General in the various Departments. Is that still his view? I understand from the HEA that it has no intention of involving itself in cutting excessive pay which may well be awarded to university heads. What is the position of Government on that issue?

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