John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome everyone to today's meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts. Before we proceed, I will go through a few housekeeping matters.

Members are reminded of the provision within Standing Order 226 that the committee shall refrain from inquiring into the merits of a policy or policies of the Government or a Minister of the Government or the merits of the objectives of such policies.

Members are also reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I also remind members of the constitutional requirement that, in order to participate in public meetings, members must be physically present within the confines of the Leinster House complex. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of Leinster House.

Today's agenda is to discuss the minutes, accounts and statements and correspondence, as well as to confirm upcoming meetings. We will then suspend the meeting and begin our engagement with officials from Inland Fisheries Ireland. The minutes of the meeting of 27 November 2025 were agreed by the committee and will be published on the committee's website.

Three sets of accounts and financial statements were laid between 24 and 28 November 2025 and are due to be considered today. We are joined by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, who is a permanent witness to the committee. I ask him to address these accounts and financial statements before I open the floor to members.

Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

The financial statements of Kilkenny and Carlow Education and Training Board for 2024 received a clear audit opinion.

The financial statements of Cork Education and Training Board for 2024 received a clear audit opinion but I drew attention to a material level of non-compliance with procurement rules.

The financial statements of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment for 2024 received a clear audit opinion.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I thank Mr. McCarthy. Do members wish to comment on any of those? No. Can we agree to note the listing of accounts and financial statements? Is that agreed? Agreed.

We will now move on to correspondence and will consider B items of correspondence, which have been received from Accounting Officers and Government bodies between 20 and 26 November 2025. The first item, No. R0368, is correspondence received from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, dated 21 November 2025, regarding the marine agencies' annual report 2024. It was agreed to note and publish this item.

Next is No. R0371, which is correspondence received from the Department of Justice, Home Affairs and Migration, dated 25 November 2025 providing a response to information requested at the meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts on 23 November. We discussed this item last week. It was flagged again for discussion in our private session. Does Deputy Geoghegan wish to comment on this?

James Geoghegan (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
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We agreed that we would seek further information. There is further information even today about this whole issue, which came to the fore when Tusla was before the committee. What seems to have been published today is another risk, that is, children who are in adult accommodation, of whom there are more than 200 according to reports today. The issue we have discussed is the risk of adults being in children's centres. On both sides of this equation, there are serious safeguarding issues. When the Department of justice was before the committee, its representatives were clear that all this was the responsibility of Tusla but in its correspondence, it has indicated that in fact, the legal responsibility is vested in the Department and as there are changes in law, it will go back to being them. However, there are huge issues as this impasse continues between two State agencies that poses real safeguarding challenges that Tusla is clearly highly concerned about and further adverse consequences could arise from that. We need to get the Department of justice to respond to that adequately and perhaps engage with Tusla again on this issue.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I concur with all that. We had a discussion about it in our private session. It is quite concerning. Even the information the Deputy alluded to, which came out overnight, involves 200 children. Our primary concern is the welfare of all children in State care. We have a remit in respect of finance and moneys but also about who has responsibility and there seems to be some ambiguity on the part of the Department and of Tusla. We have agreed to follow up on the response we got and on foot of the new information that has come to light. It is agreed we will write to the Department to follow up on that.

It was also agreed on foot of the correspondence we received from the Department in which it gave a figure of €400,000 for what was IPAS accommodation in Newtown Mount Kennedy in my constituency of Wicklow. Some €400,000 was spent on preparing and using the site in Newtown Mount Kennedy over a ten-month period. It ceased to be used for accommodation in December last year. In a meeting with the Department of justice, I asked for a specific breakdown because since that time, security has remained on site to protect an unused and unoccupied site at a considerable cost, I imagine. As the Department has stated it has no intention of further developing or using the site, I asked for a breakdown of the ongoing security costs. That was not furnished so it was agreed to write to the Department again to seek a breakdown of the security costs for an unused, unoccupied site. That was agreed.

We will move on to our work programme. Next week, on Thursday, 11 December 2025, the committee will meet the Office of the Revenue Commissioners. On Thursday, 18 December 2025, the committee will meet the Department of Social Protection and we will next week have a further discussion about our work programme for the new year.

We will move on to any other business. Are there any items members wish to flag? No. That concludes the second session. We will suspend the meeting for approximately five minutes to bring in our witnesses.