Mr. Paddy Phelan:

-----the bigger scale. The Deputy mentioned that. Her initial question was how we pay for it. It is about the stitch-in-time approach, getting the investment done now and the infrastructure in place. As the Deputy correctly said, if we take the existing policy supports for electricity, they are typically 15- or 20-year contracts that give a floor price, or guaranteed price, and this enables financing and building. If there is such a level of certainty, we will get investment. I suppose the same would apply at a farm scale. As part of this process, the output is renewable gas and bionutrients. This is the circular economy aspect. If we analyse how we can pay for these plants, the reality is we cannot achieve our targets on electricity alone. We currently do not even supply 42.5% of our total energy using electricity.

To stitch back in a couple of Deputy Aird’s questions around how we can help the food supply chain, because food is really important, if we want to take an example of big creamery, co-op or food processing companies producing milk, cheese or whatever, they need this gas because they need the high level. Typically, it will go through the gas network because it is on such a scale. The output from those plants would be injected into the gas system and they will operate as larger plants. Typically, on a farm scale, plants will be targeting the farm's own demand or perhaps some localised adjacent demand from near neighbours or whomever else. Farms might come together in a small grouping. That is a totally different investment.

My argument is that we would need a certain percentage of the larger scale ones to supply the gas into the gas grid. Gas Networks Ireland has a target of 20% renewable gas by 2030. The Government policy on biomethane or the biomethane strategy targets 5 TWh. I would say that is low and that it should be higher, but at least it is a start. It has been almost a year and a half since that strategy was launched. The initial capital grant programme had caps and limits. Fundamentally, however, if a floor price is provided for that industrial-scale gas, we will see these plants financed, go through the development process and be delivered. They will go through the proper community engagement processes, as alluded to by our colleagues earlier. Farm-scale production is very much about better using the existing resource. If the gas produced in the end supports the farmer producing the raw material and the industrial gas production supports the processor, the co-op or the creamery, etc., and we get the whole farm-to-food supply chain reduced in terms of emissions, then there is a double benefit. We tackle our energy target and reduce emissions from agriculture.

To me, it is a no-brainer. In terms of the money and resources, studies have been completed - and I will be happy to circulate them after this meeting to the committee, if that is of value - looking at area-based production. I do not want to get into the finances. I am not the financer or the person doing the numbers. From an agricultural perspective, I will reflect on the German example I gave. From 2008 to 2012 in Germany, whether it was photovoltaic, PV, solar panels being put on the roofs of farm sheds or a combined heat and power, CHP, unit adjacent to farm-based production, a free grid connection for electricity was provided by the German Government. At the moment, we cannot get a connection for our colleague here to get repaid for his energy.